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Author Topic: Update - GM PD4106 #1616 Rescue  (Read 4290 times)
bkelly1011
Brad Kelly
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« on: June 08, 2012, 06:04:45 AM »

Folks -

Not that everyone was waiting with baited breath, but here is an update on this still-seated coach in southern CT.  This Saturday, Most Excellent BusNut onelapper, armed with his 4106 knowledge, some tools, and a couple of 8Ds, will be headed to Ansonia to meet the owner, gather recon, and attempt to get it started and up/out of its current spot in the owner's back yard.

Also, I've been in touch with The Connecticut Trolley Museum (http://www.ct-trolley.org/visit/busmuseum.php), they are very interested in adding it to their fledgling collection, so the intention is to work out that part based on what the weekend's mission uncovers.

I'll ask the brothers to pray for Mark's safety this weekend, and that we can get this deal worked out this summer and get this vehicle into the hands of folks that will enjoy and preserve it.

Take care,
Brad
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 06:37:07 PM »

is the bus for sale?
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 06:43:52 PM »

Brad/Mark,

Thats some awesome work.  The Turtles are praying for you.

-Sean

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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 10:13:47 PM »

Thats great. Post pics when you can. Its really great to see one preserved in original condition. Getting very rare to find that these days and worth a premium in my book,

-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 06:51:55 PM »

Bus Nuts,

Today my daughter and I ventured out to do some recon on PD4106-1616!  This bus is currently not running.  The owner seemed a little confused on why it's not running, but when he showed me to a box deep in his garage, it didn't take me (or my 8 year old) long to determine that the without the STARTER installed, the thing wasn't going to run.

I was prepared to get this completely original 4106 up and running today..... but the owner never mentioned that it wasn't in running condition.  He only said it hadn't run in a couple or 3 years.

Unfortunately, the owner isn't sure what he wants to do with this bus........

Here are the pictures....



























Mark
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 07:23:25 PM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 07:32:43 PM »

I would sure like to have the valve covers
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 08:31:20 PM »

Brad -

FYI, PD4104-1616 was delivered new in January of 1963 as fleet number 320 to Hudson Transit Corp, HQ'd in Mahwah, NJ.

That explains the plexiglas barrier on the railing behind the driver's seat - a common transit application, rare in highway coaches back in those days.

Thanks, Mark, for pics of the original overhead luggage racks.  Brings back memories of crawling up into them to take a nap while on a charter w/ a bunch of layover time. . . Never could do that in an MCI, Eagle or Prevost!

Hope the owner decides to donate the coach to the museum. . . hate to see it go to the scrapper (w/o scavenging parts off it first!)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2012, 09:29:57 PM »

I would sure like to have the valve covers

Cliff,

What do you see special about these valves covers?  Just curious

Mark
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OneLapper
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bkelly1011
Brad Kelly
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 04:35:33 AM »

Guys -

Thanks for the comments (and thanks again to Mark for the travel and work).  I will do my best to get the owner wrestled to the ground on a decision - whether he donates or sells to CT museum, we'll do our best to make sure it doesn't wind up as raw material for Alcoa.  As Mark notes, he is sometimes a confused man.  Bus does need some work to get back running again, as Mark notes - but appears worth it with everything else it has going for it.

RJ - great info on the plexiglas; yup, I'd delivery info on busrosters; I've tried to reach out to ShortLine/Hudson Transit for more info/original paint job, no one answers calls/e-mails.  Mark seems to think it was in Kelley's fleet at one time, I might call them and see if they can verify that.  It would be nice to get a good direction on exterior restoration for whoever gets it.  Mark reports (and photos show) aside from a good cleaning, some sanding/repaint here/there, and one seat that a squirrel had for lunch, the interior is in very good shape.

Sean - Thanks, theeffective prayer of a turtle availeth much.  Also, if Angie can drive this bus, she'll be unstoppable.

I will update the CT museum guys this week, hopefully their interest remains high with Mark's info and it winds up there.  Also tried to contact NJ Tranportation Heritage folks (they're splicing together an old PS/NJT 4106, project seems on-hold, might need parts (or maybe a better bus to start with) - no response,  I don't know if anyone on the board has connections there.  The Bus Museum in Hershey has a their ultra-spiffy 4106 - although I think the flood damage is still being worked on.

Take care,
Brad

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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 07:38:07 AM »

OK good find hope the old 4106 is saved. Grin
Talked to a bus historian in the Orlando,Florida area just now and he use to drive for Hudson Transit/Shortline back when these 4106's were in service with them.
He is going through his records and photos to see if he has a photo of this same PD4106.
So we will have to wait and see what he comes up with.
jlv
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 09:19:59 AM »

I thought the hounds were the only ones with the mirror above the window ?
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2012, 09:43:48 AM »

Greyhound's very early 4104's had the high low mount mirrors some were changed to both low mount.
As for the Greyhound later PD-4104's and PD-4501 Scenicruisers, PD-4106 came with both mirrors down low.
I think that the high-low mount mirrors were a real pain to use.
My PD4104 had the high low mirrors and I changed the left mirror to a low mount and it made driving a lot nicer.
jlv
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2012, 04:48:54 PM »

OK,More information on the old PD-4106. This coach was use in pool service with Safeway Trailways into upstate New York (Buffalo).
After seeing service with Hudson Transit it went to Brown Limousine Company location unknown.
The old retired driver that had the history on this coach said that the old bus had a lot of miles on it when it left Hudson Transit.
 service.
jlv
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bkelly1011
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 06:51:49 AM »

Thanks for helping track that history down JLV; Brown's a missing link - or at least one of them!  The owner told Mark he'd purchased it from a company in NJ, that could have been the one.

FW'd Mark's photos to the CT museum PoC yesterday.  Will e-mail owner with request to go forward with tow/donation process today, we'll see where that goes.

BTW, Mark also FW'd me a message from Al, a lurker newbie (not yet fully registered - Hi, Al!), not sure if this was widely known.

>  In this month’s edition of the “National Bus Trader” on page 37, there is an ad that states ”Greyhound Bus Museum is looking for the donation of a PD4104 or PD4106 bus to build a Freedom Rider Display” Coach can be converted or seated, operational or non-operational.  Contact Gene Nicolelli (218) 263-5814.

That museum is in Hibbings, MN.  Might be useful to others whose coaches are at that point.

Thanks,
Brad
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 06:57:52 PM »

  In this month’s edition of the “National Bus Trader” on page 37, there is an ad that states ”Greyhound Bus Museum is looking for the donation of a PD4104 or PD4106 bus to build a Freedom Rider Display” Coach can be converted or seated, operational or non-operational.

The above add does not tell the rest of the story They the Museum is going to get the local fire department to burn the donated coach for a display about the freedom rider Greyhound PD4104 that was burnt in Annison Alabama 5-11-1961.
Why they want a 4106 I will never know. Folks there is a difference between a 4104 and a 4106! Huh
jlv
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2012, 09:25:46 PM »

Aaah, not this bus!
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
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bkelly1011
Brad Kelly
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2012, 08:50:37 AM »

Good grief!  Talk about missing an important piece of information!  Trying to get the image of that out of my head...
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2012, 02:53:35 PM »

Quote from: roadrunnertex
The above add does not tell the rest of the story They the Museum is going to get the local fire department to burn the donated coach for a display about the freedom rider Greyhound PD4104 that was burnt in Annison Alabama 5-11-1961.
Why they want a 4106 I will never know. Folks there is a difference between a 4104 and a 4106! Huh
jlv

Once it's on fire the differences will hardly be noticeable!
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 09:40:26 PM »

  In this month’s edition of the “National Bus Trader” on page 37, there is an ad that states ”Greyhound Bus Museum is looking for the donation of a PD4104 or PD4106 bus to build a Freedom Rider Display” Coach can be converted or seated, operational or non-operational.

The above add does not tell the rest of the story They the Museum is going to get the local fire department to burn the donated coach for a display about the freedom rider Greyhound PD4104 that was burnt in Annison Alabama 5-11-1961.

I am registered now, and would like to point out that I was unaware that they were planning on making bus flambé.

Al
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bkelly1011
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 04:07:19 AM »

Welcome, Al!

Update on the original topic - working on the negotiations.  Key issue - we have an owner asking a somewhat high price, yet at the same time fully realizing it's worth less as scrap - which he says he'll do if he doesn't sell the bus.  Hence the adjective "confused" per Mark.  More as it comes.
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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 06:22:58 PM »

Today Brad Kelly and the guys from the Connecticut Trolley Museum put a full force effort to get this all original 4106 into good hands!  And hands that are going to restore her and put her on display.  

The starter was missing and the bus hadn't run in about 4 years.  I installed a starter from one of my spare engines.  The engine fired off surprising quickly, smoked for a little while but eventually cleared up completely.

Here's a quick video of the bus moving for the first time in 4 years.




More pictures to follow...... 

Tools to install the new starter, batteries, fix a few other things.....



More tools of the trade..... BEER!  Thanks Brad, but 32 ouncers??? Are you trying to hurt me?



Checking air pressures



The missing starter!  (obviously after it was found)  It's inop.



Lots of Jetta TDIs loaded down with parts and tools...... the Ford brought the least, and it was the closest!  Ah, that's right, it's not a diesel.....



We have smoke!  And that it did for a few minutes



And here's the mud..... we were lucky to get it on pavement.



And there is PD4106-1616 safe on the pavement awaiting registration paperwork!




Brad will hopefully add some of his pictures and a description of the work that was needed to get it running

The museum is going to repaint the bus, clean up the interior, get the air leaks fixed, fix a few other inop items and invite us to the mini celebration of rolling it into the museum for display!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 07:16:18 PM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
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« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 06:29:52 PM »

Cool. Always good to see one come to life after sitting for so long.

Looks like the front end didn't air up. That'll make for an interesting ride home Wink

Bob
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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 06:42:58 PM »

Nice to see it saved and going to a good home
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« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2012, 06:58:41 PM »

Cool. Always good to see one come to life after sitting for so long.

Looks like the front end didn't air up. That'll make for an interesting ride home Wink

Bob

The front has a significant air leak.  On high idle it'll come up but the front will gradually go down when on low idle.  When she rolling it should be fine.  It needs to be driven about 60 miles to the museum, not too far.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 07:12:42 AM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
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bkelly1011
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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 07:07:49 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the words of encouragement.  Just for the record, that's Mark tearing up the guy's yard with the bus.  I'm the fat fluorescent guy running out of the way.   Grin

Seriously, things went well today, the bus runs very well.  As Mark notes, there is a decent air leak up front; also have some electrical issues preventing anything but the headlights from working, and a wobbly balancer/pulley on the engine.  The bus will remain at the seller's house for a few more weeks while the museum folks make a couple more visits to change oil/filters, adjust up brakes, etc. before driving it up to East Windsor.  Their lead mechanic was not with us today, so Mark had the helm, and we were thus in good hands.

I have more pictures as well, as well as video of Mark driving on more solid ground.
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« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2012, 10:35:01 PM »

Great job!

Love that profile shot taken from above the garage. 

I still maintain that the 4106 was one of the best-looking examples of good industrial design ever produced for the bus industry, and was terribly under-appreciated during it's production and revenue service years.  (Obviously, the Scenicruiser reigns here!)

I know some 4104 owners will disagree with me, understandably, but, IMHO, the '06 has "just that little bit extra" - the "X-Factor," if you will.  Even tho this example is sort of rough, look again at that profile pic to get a feeling for what I mean.

Glad the coach is going to a museum instead of the scrap pile!

Many thanks from this 4106 fan for rescuing 1616!   Grin

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
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bkelly1011
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« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2012, 07:50:55 PM »

OK, here's a few more highlights.  Tasks we accomplished:
Mark - install starter, exhaust manifold, answer questions
Brad - top off fluids, hold flashlight, hand Mark tools, answer questions
Karen - videographer, hand Mark tools
Museum guys - inflate tires, install new batteries

Work started in earnest ~ 9:30 AM.  Fluid top-off uneventful.  Tire inflation more interesting - the guys added oil to their compressor and didn't tighten the cap, created a neat arc of oil all over the driveway (see below).  The museum guys also checked torque on the wheel nuts.  I even had an opportunity to explain the difference between a stud- and hub-piloted wheel to the younger guys.

Battery install - they brought Group 31s (not ideal but OK) - unfortunately the bus' cables would not reach.  So they got one hooked up, good enough to start, planned a trip to Advance Auto to get cable extensions at lunch.

While that was going on Mark worked on the starter.  We wrestled it into place, he wrenched it in.  One bolt was difficult to get a socket on due to interference from a nut on the starter, but he managed.  Once it was wired and the battery was online, Mark went to "bump" the starter to ensure it was hooked up.  That little bump started the engine running.  We were surprised no only by the immediate start but also by the fact that exhaust was coming out of the intake.  Evidently, it bumped itself backwards.  We'd never heard of that ever happening, so Mark removed the starter to check it was turning the correct way, and it was - so back in it went.  A longer push of the go button got things going the right way.  Lost about an hour there.

On to the exhaust manifold - Mark was pretty much on his own there, as it was now pouring out, creating a river which flowed down the driveway right to where the bus sat.  Rain quit, job completed - only issue we were missing one fastener, but good enough.  We then re-attached the transmission bell cranks, clutch rod, alternator oil line, and then gave it a good run to get the air up.  As previously noted, we realized we had a leak up front, but it wasn't a deal-breaker.

As the bus was being fast-idled by foot to build air, Bert of the museum team noted steam coming from the battery bay.  An overzealous voltage regulator was pumping out ~18V.  We drew wire wraps and it fell to me to disconnect the battery, so I did.  We then had enough air to back the bus up, although when I put it into first it died.  So we hooked the battery back up again; the restart was painful, so (eventually) in went the second battery with the new cables.  Before both batteries got fried, Mark jumped in the seat and did his magic and got the bus backed onto the pavement.  We then decided to leave the batteries connected, and disconnect the generator (I lost the draw again).  

A few more parking maneuvers, and we were basically done.  Lots of good dangerous fun; I learned a lot and got more soot up my nose than a WV coal miner, but a good sense of accomplishment.  Just had to face the 3.25 hour drive home.

OK, my videos - I'll leave off my duplicate of it coming out of the yard, here's a couple of others Karen took; basically this demonstrates its smoking habit got much better after we got it warmed up.  I can't figure out how to embed videos like Mark does, you'll have to deal with the URLs:

Bus Movement #2 - wish we'd done this in 3-D, the cameraperson almost got smooshed:  http://youtu.be/k3lg1p6rxcQ
Bus Movement #3 - almost got it in the right place; you get to see the right side and hear the throw-out bearing:  http://youtu.be/gHe06ROBcIo

 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 07:59:31 PM by bkelly1011 » Logged

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bkelly1011
Brad Kelly
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« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2012, 08:23:29 PM »

OK, I'm also inept at embedding pictures.  So here are some as attachments.  First - this is - left to right - me, Mark, then from the museum team - Bert Johansen, Alan Walker, Xian Ciere, John (can't remember his last name), and (I think) Tim Lesniak.  Second - the younger guys getting cleanup duty for the Craftsman Valdez air compressor.  Third - Mark demoed using brake fluid as a cleaner for aluminum silversides for us - the results can be seen in the driver's side breastplate.  Not bad for a quick fix.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 08:39:25 PM by bkelly1011 » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2012, 10:46:18 PM »

Brake fluid as a cleaner. Never tried that. Looks pretty good. Does is last very long to turn dull after evaporation?
-TomP.
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Tom Phillips
PD4106-453
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« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2012, 07:36:06 AM »

Brake fluid as a cleaner. Never tried that. Looks pretty good. Does is last very long to turn dull after evaporation?
-TomP.

Hi Tom,

The brake fluid does evaporate pretty quickly.  It can last a couple of days when using the cheapest brake fluid I could find.  I did try some über expensive brake fluid (left over stuff I use in my race car) and the shine lasted a couple weeks.  If I'm going camping for the weekend I'll give a 30 minute wipe down.  The bus really looks great for a few days!  I'm sure there are longer lasting solutions out there but I've been more concerned with the mechanicals than with the cosmetics.  This winter I'll repaint my painted stripe.
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OneLapper
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