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Author Topic: f/up re toad car and Prevost  (Read 3383 times)
Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2012, 07:58:55 AM »

I use the system from US Gears.  All i have to do to go is hook up the tow bar and a couple of cables and i am good to go.  Since it runs a little vacuum pump off of my battery for the brake booster, i found that if i tow for more than a day or two without running the jeep engine to recharge my battery it will run my battery down. So if i am going to thru an area where i know i will be using the brakes a lot, or not unhooking the jeep and using it for a day or two, i put a small solar panel on the dash to charge the battery while traveling.
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Will & Wife
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2012, 04:46:39 PM »

Where do you trailer guys store your trailer at an Rv park?

The park we're currently in doesn't even have room enough for the toad, much less a trailer. Patrons have to park their toads and tow vehicles up by the highway. I have no idea what one would do with a trailer.... Huh
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boxcarOkie
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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2012, 06:25:52 PM »

Where do you trailer guys store your trailer at an Rv park?

The park we're currently in doesn't even have room enough for the toad, much less a trailer. Patrons have to park their toads and tow vehicles up by the highway. I have no idea what one would do with a trailer.... Huh

I make inquiries of space and length and all that.  If they can, I ask them to put me on the back-row where I can let it hang out.  If it will not accommodate me, that is fine, I will go somewhere else, swing-sets and swimming pools don't turn me on anyway.

As for backing one up and all that other non-sense, it is no problem.  I routinely slip it in between trucks all the time in truck-stops,  I have once or twice had to unhook it and most of the time do not run over curbs. There is a downside .... A trailer will often doom you to truckstops or WalMart, something that comes with the territory.  

KOA and other more modern parks have some pull thru's that are close to 100 ft long, if you want it, it is out there.  Sam's Town in 'Vegas makes me unhook and store it up against a wall, Riverside in Laughlin lets it hang out. A $25 a night campground isn't going to be able to take you nine times out of ten.  

All this posturing about brake systems and whether or not you actually need one is kind of pointless.  It is the law, in all 48 states and in Canada.  You chose to willfully break the law, and you are in an accident, that is going to be enough to gut you like a fish by any competent attorney.  You may think you are above all that, but you are not.  You want to cheat the system then be prepared to pay for it in the end.

Like every other law of physics, the second law of motion — “force equals mass times acceleration” — isn’t open for debate. “Mass” (the weight of the towed vehicle) times “acceleration” (65 miles an hour, in the examples that are usually stated) equals “force.”

Always. Which creates, in effect, a 3,000- to 10,000-pound battering ram aimed directly at the back of the coach. Might pay to remember this while we are at it ... The laws of physics don’t recognize state boundaries.

So it doesn’t matter whether you’re towing in Texas, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, or British Columbia — there’s no getting around the long arm of the second law of motion. Or, for that matter, the third law of motion — “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction” — every time you hit the brakes.

No supplemental brakes ... Not a good idea.  Like I said before ... Use it or lose it all.  

Your choice, don't be stupid.

BCO
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 06:32:28 PM by boxcarOkie » Logged

dukegrad98
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2012, 07:44:39 PM »

Like every other law of physics, the second law of motion — “force equals mass times acceleration” — isn’t open for debate. “Mass” (the weight of the towed vehicle) times “acceleration” (65 miles an hour, in the examples that are usually stated) equals “force.”

Always. Which creates, in effect, a 3,000- to 10,000-pound battering ram aimed directly at the back of the coach. Might pay to remember this while we are at it ... The laws of physics don’t recognize state boundaries.

Agree with all you said above, except for the confusion of velocity (65mph) with acceleration (going from 65mph - 0mph in 0.3 seconds while shortening your bus by five or eight feet).  To quote an old t-shirt that humorously distinguishes between velocity and acceleration:  It's not the pace of life that should scare you -- it's the sudden stop at the end!   Grin

Cheers, John
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edroelle
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 07:58:58 AM »

I have not found a supplemental brake system that is truly proportional in the correct amount.    You want your toad vehicle to contribute braking at the same deceleration as your bus - with no forward or reverse force on your tow bar.   You also want the toad to come to the point of tire slide at the same deceleration point as your bus.   You do not want the toad to be trying to stop the bus.

There are hundreds if not thousands of design combinations of car brake systems, all optimized for that vehicle.   Various rotor and drum sizes, hydraulic wheel cylinder sizes, master cylinder sizes, metering and proportioning valves, vacuum booster sizes, brake pedal leverages, brake lining materials, etc.

The companies that sell supplemental brake system market their product with the term "proportional braking".     Do you really think a single, off the Camping World shelf system, is capable of providing an effective system?

Retired, but was a brake design engineer for many years at GM.

Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
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bevans6
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« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 08:34:00 AM »

In Ontario, a towed car on four wheels or on a dolly is NOT required to have a braking system.  http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/part3.shtml#b   This is the same in most states.  The requirements for brakes that apply to trailers don't, for the most part, apply to towed cars.  http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm, look at the column "brake laws towed cars", in about the middle.

With that said, for me and my application the real reason I tow with supplemental brakes is for the extremely rare occasion when the car might break away from the bus.  I want to have the brakes come on and stop the vehicle as fast as possible.  For that reason alone I tow my front wheel drive car on a dolly that has electric brakes and a battery operated breakaway system.

A Prodigy by Tekhonsha is reasonably proportional, it works by turning on with the brake lights and then applying brake voltage in proportion to deceleration gravities (a G-sensor).  My Ford pickup has one that works from hydraulic brake pressure, it is seamless.  You can, of course, adjust them all wrong if you want to...   Wink

Brian
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 08:37:58 AM by bevans6 » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 06:37:40 PM »

I totally agree with you Brian. I can live with a 5 foot shorter bus. Heck, that's what the wife wanted anyway. But I couldn't live with the realization that my toad broke loose and played leapfrog with other traffic. My only concern is a breakaway safety for obvious reasons, Will
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« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 08:33:35 PM »

I think that the link a included earilier seemed to say that there were more state laws requiring breakaway protection than the aux brake.  Is it really any savings to just get that alone?
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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2012, 12:50:28 PM »

I guess I don't see the use of breakaway systems.  Is it really better for the brakes on a loose trailer or toad to slam on and come to stop in the traffic lane than to keep rolling and probably end up in the median or in the ditch?  I guess they make more sense on a two lane highway than an interstate, at least to me.

I do have a working breakaway system on my trailer as they are required.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 02:27:11 PM »

I don't understand how it can be considered an issue of preference when law is involved.
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boxcarOkie
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« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »

"I guess I don't see the use of breakaway systems.  Is it really better for the brakes on a loose trailer or toad to slam on and come to stop in the traffic lane than to keep rolling and probably end up in the median or in the ditch?  I guess they make more sense on a two lane highway than an interstate, at least to me."

I believe I've read it all now.    Is it really better for the brakes on a loose trailer or toad to slam on and come to stop in the traffic lane than to keep rolling and probably end up in the median or in the ditch?

The obvious answer is yes, I don't want any three-ton loose missile coming across a center median or out of a ditch to kill me or my family.

You serious? 

C'mon.   

BCO

(Someone needs to lock up this thread and shut it down, it is really getting pretty lame or just move it to the section entitled irrelevant information.)
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belfert
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2012, 03:10:41 PM »

Like I said, I have properly operating breakaway systems since they are required by law.  I am not advocating anyone not have a breakway system on a trailer with brakes.  I just don't why understand someone in the government mandated trailers come to immediate stop if they come loose from the vehicle.

So, if my trailer comes loose you would rather have it skid to a halt right in the traffic lane in front of you rather than perhaps it rolls harmless into the ditch or median?  I sure hope to never have to find out what happens if a trailer does come loose.  I always check my connection with the jack before I finish raising the jack.  My large trailer has new safety chains because the old ones were questionable.

Nobody says why most safety systems are required.  They just mandate the systems and everyone installs them to be legal.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 03:15:22 PM by belfert » Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2012, 03:18:47 PM »

trailer or towed car without breakaway emergency brakes - uncontrolled missile going where ever it wants.  Trailer or towed car with breakaway emergency brakes - uncontrolled missile going where ever it wants for a far shorter period of time.  Easy choice, guys, don't over think this.  It's really easy - brakes good, no brakes bad.  Don't need to get all philosophical or invoke metaphysics...

Brian
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2012, 07:47:46 PM »

I apologize for taking the OP's thread so far off topic.  I would go back and edit all my posts, but the thread would never make sense unless a moderator just deletes all of the replies to me.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2012, 01:50:32 AM »

I had an boat trailer come off the back of my car once. I heard a loud bang and braked hard, and the trailer overtook me and I had to accelerate again to keep up with it. My main memory of the event is following the shower of sparks coming from the front of the trailer as it scraped along the road. The trailer crossed three lanes of the motorway and hit the central barrier (fortunately there's always a barrier here so it's never possible for things to cross into the oncoming carriageway).

It was probably the scariest experience of my life, and I'm incredibly lucky that it happened in the middle of the night when I was the only car on the road.


Jeremy
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