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Author Topic: Interesting info on 2cycle diesel lubrication  (Read 2786 times)
fortyniner
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« on: June 28, 2012, 04:37:50 AM »

Im starting to get pretty nervous about obtaining the proper oil for the 8v71. The Delo 100 is getting harder to find all the time. While trying to figure out what oil choices are available I stumbled onto this article which among other things finally explains exactly why ash content is a problem with 2cycle diesel engines.

http://www.shell.com/home/content/marine_products/products/lubricants/oil_stress/

I found a decently priced Costal 40wt fleet oil that claims to be ok for 2stroke diesels. .9% ash.

I wonder what are the marine guys doing about this.

-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
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buswarrior
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 06:32:59 AM »

I couldn't find where they discussed ash content?

This Shell article might not be applicable to our Detroit Diesel engines, this may be something for those big ship engines, which many are two strokes of other manufacturers, and function in different ways.

Try this collection of information at Tegas Coach Works for a bunch of specifically Detroit Diesel testing:

http://www.tejascoach.com/tips.html

Our oil will be available, there are simply too many of these engines still in service on the road, in off-road equipment, and in boats, and will be for a long time to come.

You just might have to get used to the idea of having to order it in rather than it being on the shelf, depending on where you are, and how much demand there is locally to you.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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RickB
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 06:59:35 AM »

Tom,

Do you have any fleet farm stores near you? They have straight 30 and 40 weight that meets our 2 strokes needs.

Rick
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 07:44:08 AM »

Do you have any fleet farm stores near you? They have straight 30 and 40 weight that meets our 2 strokes needs.

That 40 weight oil that Mills Fleet Farm sells at their stores in Minnesota and Wisconsin appears to have 1.2% ash content.  I just bought 10 gallons of Mystik 15W-40 oil at Mills Fleet Farm last night to change my oil.  I had been checking the specs online before I bought the oil.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
RickB
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 08:13:32 AM »

Brian,

I've been running that oil now for 10 years. I'm not sure what the ash content is supposed to be but I know that the codes on the 5 gallon bottle were what basically every mechanic that I've talked to about this recommended. That said, if I were to have a catastrophic oil related issue after 10 years of running an oil I'm not sure anyone could prove it's because of a difference of .9 and 1.2 ash content and the fact that my motor ran for 10 years on it without an issue seems to prove that the oil has proven itself to be capable of maintaining the lubrication of my engine. Any guarantee above 10 years would be unrealistic in my opinion and the belief that oil is solely responsible for the millions of things that can go wrong in our engines is placing too much emphasis on a product to be responsible for my motor's health.

There seems to be 2-3 things that we discuss on this board that we are never all gonna agree upon for the duration of the board. Oil, it's ash content, it's viscosity seem to be one such hot button.

Respectfully,

rick
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I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.
luvrbus
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 08:45:43 AM »

And you can keep running it Rick and it won't damage your engine ,the almighty Delo 100 just made on the market in late 60's that was 30 years after the birth of 2 stroke 

For years we ran series 3 and the SL rated oils in the 71 series and I don't see the 71 series lasting any longer with the low ash oils   

The only DD engine I see touchy about low ash oil is the 149 series and that is a totally different animal,
 
Good grief look at the spec on the oil the military uses in those engine ML-2014
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 09:17:04 AM »

There's propaganda, there's speculation, there's studies in controlled labs by folks who have never stepped foot on a bus, there's guys like me who have limited personal experience and knowledge and then there's Clifford.

The guy just makes me smile.

I would like to be as sure about one thing in my life as he is about most things in his life. Take him or leave him the guy has a confidence about him that doesn't come from books or opinion polls or hearsay. It comes from being covered in oil, up to your eyeballs, in a two stroke crankcase with torque wrenches flying every which way and micrometers in search of the "true" health of a motor.

You are a blessing among us Clifford and we are grateful.

RB
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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 09:44:38 AM »

I'm not saying the 40 weight oil from Mills Fleet Farm won't work.  I just mentioned for the people who are sticklers for specs that technically their 40 weight oil is over the ash spec although I believe the bottle says it is certified for Detroit.

I've never purchased 40 weight oil since I don't have a 2 stroke.  I'm not all that picky about which 15W-40 gets used in my Series 60.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
viking1
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 12:35:48 PM »

try wallmart. our wallmart carries the delo 100
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 01:14:34 PM »

Yes the military runs 15W-40 in their 2 stroke engine-but the military also has only a 2,000 hour requirement on their engines.  And if the engines do take a dump-the military has endless money supply to rebuild/replace the engines. 
We don't have that luxury.  Please run only 2 stroke approved 40 weight in your 2 stroke Detroit Diesel.
Simple explanation.  With multi grad oils-like 15W-40-there are emulsifiers (I think that's the right expression) that takes a 15 weight oil to make the engine think it is a 40 weight oil.  Think of oil as chemical ball bearings.  In a 4 stroke engine, it relaxes after every power stroke with the exhaust and intake stroke giving these oil ball bearings a chance to bounce back after being crushed under the power stroke.  On a 2 stroke, the engine never relaxes-it is either compressing or powering all the time with a very short exhaust and intake time.  Hence the oil ball bearings don't have a chance to bounce back-keep them compressed down to a 15 weight oil-hence your 2 stroke engine is only seeing a 15 weight oil.  Straight 40 weight will not allow that to happen. 
There have been too many visual tests by Detroit to see the destructive action of using 15W-40 that keeps me using 40 weight.

If you're in Texas, Houston and Gulf cities will be carrying straight 40 weight for the oil industry crew boats-too many still in service with 2 stroke Detroits.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 01:32:30 PM »

Bet you Fairchild and Geoff never knew that lol I never used 15/40 in 71 series because of the cooling of the pistons but seen lot of 53 series and 92 series with 6000+ hrs that never had anything but 15/40 oil not that I recommend it.

Where did we get off on the 15/40 ? thought this was about ash content
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fortyniner
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 02:31:48 PM »

What, a wallmart has delo 100? Not mine (austin tx).

Im in Texas, I just need the brand names of some good ones. Costal brand has .9 ash and is
available in straight weight but that higher ash than Id like..

Im sure there are plenty of good DD oils available since the marine industry is so
dependent on them.




 
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Tom Phillips
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luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 02:43:55 PM »

Do you really think that .90% ash in Coastal oil which by the way is big in the 2 strokes around Corpus Christi and Gulf coast area where it is made and the Delo 100 with .85% ash is going to make a difference lol you guys and this oil thing


good luck
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fortyniner
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 02:53:50 PM »

Heck if I know. 1.5% doesnt sound like much to me but apparently its significant.

-Tom P.
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Tom Phillips
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luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 03:03:19 PM »

How are you coming up with 1.5  difference do you work in DC fuzzy math there buddy  .90 -.85 =.05 when I went to school and for you wise asses before you comment yes they had schools when I was young lol

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