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Author Topic: Your opinion on a 120v. 40 a. Inverter. I may need one.  (Read 1282 times)
Chaz
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« on: July 09, 2012, 08:02:00 PM »

Hey folks,
  I started the thread a couple days ago about not having "juice" from the pole to make my AC work. I am still going to call the company and see if I am doing something wrong or if the inverter is messed up. If it is, I'm pretty certain I will have to send it off for repair and I imagine it will be a pricey venture.
  Sooooooo.... I decided , for the heck of it ( and to maybe help some one else looking) to find out what a good inverter costs and what do you recommend. I would just like have to have a little due diligence done before I call them.
  I have a 4024 Xantrex and will not spend that kind of cake again. I was so proud of it when I got it, only to rarely use it and it goes bad. Maybe something is my fault but I don't want to spend that kind of money again.
  But before I pull that trigger, I'm kind of interested in what you got and how it works. I need/ want a 24v -40 amp unit.
  Suggetsions always welcome.

I am going to try to get it repaired but if it's as pricey as I have heard, I' buying a new one.
Thanx a bunch for everything,
  Chaz
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belfert
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 08:09:50 PM »

Magnum Energy and Outback both make good inverters.  If you want 24 volt you would need the MS4024 which sells for about $2,000 with the remote panel and all that.  I would follow up on BW's suggestion and make sure you have good batteries before getting another inverter.
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Sean
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 10:07:15 PM »

...  I have a 4024 Xantrex and will not spend that kind of cake again. ... I need/ want a 24v -40 amp unit.


40-amp units in that voltage are as rare as hen's teeth, and will likely cost you more than you spent on the 34-amp Xantrex, no matter what brand you buy (assuming you stick with true sine models).

The Magnum MS4024 that Brian suggested also tops out at around 34 amps continuous, not the 40 you are looking for.

But I have to ask:  Did you try switching to AC2 as I suggested?  That's free, and if it works, you won't need to do anything further.  Still won't give you 40 amps, though.

If you need the load-supplementing feature that your SW4024 provides, about the only solutions are Mastervolt and Victron.  Those will run you well north of $3,000 for either one in that size.  Neither the Magnum nor the Outback provides this capability.  That's the reason I still recommend the SW series to people looking to do this for less money -- they can still be found on the used market, and occasionally factory refurbs can be had.

The last time I had to exchange a broken SW4024 it was a couple hundred bucks, FWIW.

-Sean
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muldoonman
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 06:18:15 AM »

Just purchased a    Magnum Energy 2500 Watt Power Inverter Charger for my coach. The one That was in bus was installed in 1991 when coach was built. It has external battery chargers (2) and figured new stuff is better.  This one (Magnum) all built in inverter/charger.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 07:14:19 AM »

You can buy Victron Quattro 5k 24v for about the same as a Magnum or Outback I replaced 2 Victron's on the boat before selling the boat the service is O on a Victron here in the US 

All the guy in San Diego @ Explorer Marine ever wanted to do is replace parts or the units they had no idea on how to repair one 

I believe they were made in Denmark they would not be my 1st choice for a inverter I spent a bundle for repairs before replacing those but YMMD sorry Sean
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Sean
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 09:43:46 AM »

You can buy Victron Quattro 5k 24v for about the same as a Magnum or Outback


Clifford, you need to tell me where you're shopping.  Either you are getting a great deal on Victrons, or you're overpaying for Magnums.  Outbacks are, IMO, overpriced.  If you're getting a deal on Victrons, I want in on it Smiley

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... the service is O on a Victron here in the US  ...

All the guy in San Diego @ Explorer Marine ever wanted to do is replace parts or the units they had no idea on how to repair one 

... they would not be my 1st choice for a inverter I spent a bundle for repairs before replacing those but YMMD sorry Sean


These are again some of the reasons why I usually suggest a reman Trace before sending folks to Victron.

Quote
I believe they were made in Denmark


Victron, like just about anyone else, has manufacturing facilities in several countries.  The company is headquartered in the Netherlands (aka Holland).  The Dutch have a much larger marine industry than the Danes.

Unfortunately, there are just not a lot of choices with this capability.  When the old Trace SW series are simply no longer to be found anywhere, Victron and Mastervolt are the only ones left (at the moment).

-Sean
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 10:03:16 AM »

I apologize in advance if this causes thread drift but can some of you smart guys tell me if there is a 12 volt inverter charger with load sharing ability?  I've got Freedom 25s on the boat and the bus but I'd sure like that load sharing capability if it is available in a 12V version.
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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 11:37:12 AM »

I wonder if Chaz really wants 40 amps battery charging ability?  An inverter that puts out 40 amps of 120 volt AC will be larger than the 4024 Chaz has now.  He mentioned he doesn't want to spend as much as a Xantrex 4024.  I brought up the MS4024 because it is the only unit Magnum Energy makes with 24 volt input.

Bob, Victron makes a 3000 watt 12 volt inverter that does load sharing.  It costs over $2,000.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 02:38:35 PM »

Sent you a PM RE Freedom 2500/24 Volt
JimH
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Sean
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 02:48:31 PM »

I apologize in advance if this causes thread drift but can some of you smart guys tell me if there is a 12 volt inverter charger with load sharing ability?  ...


Bob, AFAIK, your only two choices are the Xantrex SW2512 or the Victron Multiplus 12/3000.  The former is getting harder and harder to find -- they are discontinued, so you need to get one used or refurbished -- and the latter is spendy.  Mastervolt's Mass Sine series only has this feature in their 24v models.

Chris and Cherie of Technomadia have the Victron unit and can probably tell you more about its ups and downs than I can.

Or I understand you can ask Ron -- he probably knows all about it Wink  [inside joke, sorry]

-Sean
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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 07:41:37 PM »

I apologize in advance if this causes thread drift but can some of you smart guys tell me if there is a 12 volt inverter charger with load sharing ability?  ...

Bob, AFAIK, your only two choices are the Xantrex SW2512 or the Victron Multiplus 12/3000.  (snip)   

    OK, on my Outback FX2012MT (yeah, I know 12V and fairly small and nobody seems to have anything good to say for Outback equipment), I can set the "max AC current input" at 8Amp (or 1000 Watts) if the only shore power available is a plain wall plug and a 12Ga extension cord.  If I'm running the microwave at, say, 1500 watts, it will pull 500 watts from the battery bank and add that to the 1000 watts from the shore cord.  Then when the load (microwave) is switched off, it will recharge the batteries out of the 1000 Watts coming in from the shore cord.

    Is that "load sharing"?

    Thx in advance,  BH  NC USA
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
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Sean
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 10:12:54 PM »

    OK, on my Outback FX2012MT (yeah, I know 12V and fairly small and nobody seems to have anything good to say for Outback equipment), I can set the "max AC current input" at 8Amp (or 1000 Watts) if the only shore power available is a plain wall plug and a 12Ga extension cord.  If I'm running the microwave at, say, 1500 watts, it will pull 500 watts from the battery bank and add that to the 1000 watts from the shore cord.  Then when the load (microwave) is switched off, it will recharge the batteries out of the 1000 Watts coming in from the shore cord.

    Is that "load sharing"?


Well, "load sharing" is not the term I would use to describe what we've been discussing, although that's what Bob wrote.  Many inverter manufacturers uses the term "load sharing" to refer merely to sharing between the charger and the loads, which is exactly what your Outback does.  I think what Bob meant is the ability to supplement the incoming AC power with power from the batteries to produce more power than either the shore/generator or inverter can produce on its own.

Doing this requires the inverter to completely synchronize its output waveform with the incoming AC waveform.  It also requires a sophisticated "islanding" detection function, because, while this load supplementing is going on, the inverter output is bridged directly to the AC input, and if the grid power goes out somewhere upstream, without this detection the inverter will try to power the whole neighborhood, which is dangerous.

Your particular Outback unit does not have this capability, AFAIK.  IOTW, you could not connect it to a 30-amp shore service, and then draw 45 amps from the output continuously, even though the inverter itself can provide 16 amps.  It just has no way to add these two together.

What the FX2012MT (and some other brands) does is to throttle back the charger as AC load rises, until the load current reaches the value of the Max AC1 Amps setting, at which point the charger will be off altogether.  If the AC load goes above that value, the load will be disconnected from the AC input and the unit will begin supplying the load by inverting.  The load in this case is still limited to the maximum continuous and surge ratings of the inverter itself, in the case of your FX2012MT, that's about 17 amps continuous, 21 amps for 30 minutes, and 33 amps for 5 seconds.  By contrast, a Trace SW2512, for example, can supply 21 amps PLUS whatever is coming in from the grid indefinitely, until the batteries run out.

I am open to being corrected on this, but that is my reading of the technical documentation that Outback has published for the FX2012MT (and its other RV/marine models).  Not having one in front of me with which to test, that's all I have to go on.

-Sean
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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 06:10:37 AM »

  (snip)  Your particular Outback unit does not have this capability, AFAIK.  

     Thanks for that information.
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
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