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Author Topic: Smoking 8V92TA DDEC II  (Read 6180 times)
Sam 4106
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2012, 06:49:42 AM »

After over an hour waiting for my bus to be looked at this morning, the service adviser came to the bus and told me they are going to order another ECM, make sure it is programed correctly and install it. I have to be back at the shop at 8:30 tomorrow. We will see if that helps the smoking problem. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

Thanks, Sam
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
Don Fairchild
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2012, 07:59:13 AM »

Sam, why did they replace the ECM in the first place, there may be something else going as suggested by others. Does it only smoke on take off or does it smoke all the time. Explane all the symptoms if you can and we will help the best we can. The problem with reprogramming the ECM is it has to be connected to the main frame at DDC and they need permission from the Germans to do that. I ran across that problem with a couple of ecm's I wanted up graded for a 12V92TA I am working on. I sent them to someone on this board to see what he could do with them.

Don
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luvrbus
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2012, 08:16:19 AM »

Don, the DD software will usually allow a 10 to 15% increase after that it get kinda of sticky with the Germans the DD 13 and DD 15 you don't do anything with those puppies not even the dealer will try lol  

Cole says you cannot do what you are after and he doesn't want to get involved with the state of Ca hope your guy can get it done
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 09:46:15 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2012, 08:20:46 AM »

so much for engine manufactures. They sell a pruduct and then tell you to pound sand. I guess we can think the EPA and one world govment for this mess.

Don
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luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2012, 08:35:18 AM »

Cole is giving classes at Luke Air Base here in Phoenix in mid Oct till the 1st of Nov it will be on the new stuff I don't if it would help us or not but if you want to go I'll try and get us in  

The new DDEC coming are going have GPS locator and other things like a touch screen for some actions I don't what all yet but it will probably do Sliver leaf an QuallCom in after all the old DDEC's are gone
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 09:48:43 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Sam 4106
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2012, 11:16:20 AM »

Hi Don,

The ECM was replaced because I lost throttle intermittently. With the old ECM I couldn't make the engine smoke. Now it smokes black whether I use light or heavy throttle. Once up to speed, there is no visible smoke. But my fuel milage has gone down from 5.96 average over 6713 miles to 5.00 for the last 1832 miles since the ECM was replaced. I know driving conditions have an effect on mileage so that's why I average over the long term. There are no codes stored on the current ECM, but there were several on the old one. The engine runs smoothly and has the same power that it had before. The filter minder on the air cleaner shows 8 so I don't think that is the problem. The fuel filters were replaced Tuesday. What other information would be useful?

Thanks, Sam
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
Don Fairchild
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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2012, 12:22:56 PM »

Clifford, I would like to go to the class if Cole can arrange it. I would also like to meet Cole and pick his brain a little.

Sam, as ken suggested you need to put a boost gauge in even if you run it into the bedroom and have some one watch it as you run down the road as you would normally. I would also ask if the shop can check the throttle peddle operation it may have a bad rheostat in it, they should be able to check the output.

Don
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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2012, 12:51:59 PM »

A boost gauge and exhaust gas temperature gauge would be very useful for anyone operating a diesel engine might have any of the following questions. The gauges may not provide all of the answers, but they provide very useful information.

Why do I not have as much power now as previously?
Why is my engine over heating?
All of the sudden I have a lot of blue smoke, why?
Why is my engine is black smoking?
Why is my fuel mileage lower than previously?

Would most of you agree with that? What did I leave out?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2012, 01:31:38 PM »

I never leave home without the 2 Ken that was the first thing I installed on my wife's little motor home
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Sam 4106
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2012, 04:29:27 PM »

We are back home. The ECM was changed at Interstate DD in Fargo Friday. No change in the black smoke so they put the other ECM back on and said that no other work on the engine is advised. I asked about exhaust leaks or a leak between the turbo and the blower, the mechanic said he checked that the first time I was at the shop and none were found. Smoked all the way home. I guess I am done with Interstate DD. I can't help wondering if it is still the ECM since the old ECM wouldn't let the engine ever smoke. If I remember correctly the original ECM was version 111 and both of the other ones are version 154. I think the only way I am going to know if the ECM is the problem is to find a version 111 and try it. I have no idea where to fine one, but will start looking at other things in the mean time. I ordered a new air filter today and will start there. The filter minder is only showing 9 with the current air filter, but Clifford has mentioned several times not to trust them. After that I will look at the turbo even though the mechanic said the boost pressure was normal. The power seems to be the same as it was before the ECM change except there seems to be better take off from a stop now. I noticed smoke also when in cruise when more power was needed to climb small hills.
I thought the hot weather might be a factor but it was cool when we started out this morning and had black smoke right away. If I can't find a solution to the smoking problem I will start looking for a different engine. I am really unhappy with all this smoke.

Where would I look for a boost gauge and pyrometer? I had a Silver Leaf that showed boost pressure but I don't think it showed exhaust temperature. I may be wrong. I returned it because it wouldn't show road speed with the 111 version ECM I had at the time, which was the main reason I bought it. Can anyone tell me if it will tell me road speed with version 154 ECM? I would consider getting one again if it would. Then I would need to add a pyrometer.
Any further advise would be really appreciated. Thanks Sam
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
Don Fairchild
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« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2012, 04:35:36 PM »

Sam, I am going to go out on a limb and say I bet you have a bad injector or two.  Sorry for all the trouble, It is not supposed to be like this. The new breed of mechanics don't know what to do if they can't find it on the computer or in the book (provided they can read and understand). They will tell you it can't be done.

Don
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 04:47:22 PM »

Sam, I suspect Ken will reply in a while.  However, the 111 and 154 you mention are software version and are not specific to you engine.  In addition to the software version, the ECM needs the data/tables that are specific to your engine.  Not worth trying to find an ECM with older software version, in my opinion.

A side benefit to the "new" ECM:  the VMSpc will now work Grin

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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Sam 4106
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« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 05:57:34 PM »

Don, How do I determine if there are bad injectors? Can I do that myself or will I have to take the bus to a shop again? Or, should I just buy a set of injectors and have them installed? I used to be a pretty good mechanic with the mechanical engines, but am lost with electronics. I hate to pay over $100/hr for a shop to guess what is wrong. The 2 trips to Interstate DD last week cost over $500 and didn't accomplish anything. Your continued advise is welcome, thanks.

Jim, If I can get this engine straightened out I will give you a call about a VMSpc. I'm glad to hear it will work with the 154 version. I won't bother looking for an older ECM. Thanks for that advise.
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
luvrbus
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« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 06:29:18 PM »

I have a hard time with people like that why in the hell didn't he cut 1 injector out at a time and watch the smoke and eliminate  injector problems it only takes 1 bad injector and they will roll black smoke.

What was the boost pressure Sam did he say boost pressure can be ok even with a bad turbo response time is a factor with black smoke

Buying DDEC injectors are pricey almost 300 bucks each for a good rebuilt and reliable injectors

I learned that lesson the hard way I paid a e place seller 900 bucks for a so called rebuilt set in the boxes they are good paper weights lol Don has a good re builder but he is not cheap keep us posted 

I would not look for another engine DDEC's are like a mechanical engine it is all about the fuel to air ratio


good luck
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Boomer
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« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 07:56:49 PM »

J&J Injector Service in Portland, OR.  Best around.  They have plenty of cores so there is no waiting.  Speak with Darrel, the owner.
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