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Author Topic: SilverLeaf as a replacement dash  (Read 5192 times)
robertglines1
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« on: September 05, 2012, 12:39:09 PM »

Is this a realistic option with a electronic engine. On the prevostcommunity web site they have picture of one. It looks great. I'm shy to ask $ there or about actual ? is it really worth it for information gained or just a cool lookin toy?  I have the original Prevost dash now that works.  Comments.    Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
bevans6
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 01:14:32 PM »

I met several people with S50's in MC-9's and such that had converted 100% to Silverleaf.  No other dash instrumentation at all.  They loved it...  Built beautiful dashes around it, polished wood, etc.

Brian
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 02:07:51 PM »

Some Prevost have SliverLeaf glass dash kinda of pricey at $12,000 with tax  but then it is only money lol Jim will sell you one
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Sean
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 02:22:23 PM »

Is this a realistic option with a electronic engine.

Yes, but:

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... I'm shy to ask $ there or about actual ?

Well north of $10k for the actual glass cockpit product.  That said, you can buy the VMSPC software, make your own adapter (DDEC-III and above -- you'll need theirs for DDEC-I or -II), and slap it on a $200 PC with a ~$200-$500 display and roll your own.  Won't look as whizzy, but it would work.

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is it really worth it for information gained or just a cool lookin toy?

It won't give you any more information than the $1,500 VMS box, a Pro-Driver, or VMSpc with a cheapo netbook.  That said, that's more information than you'll get from a traditional set of gauges.  The single most useful thing you will get is instant display of fault codes when your CEL comes on, and the second most useful thing you will get is fuel consumption and mileage.  Everything else is a repeat of what you can get from analog gauges, but if you don't already have, for example, a boost gauge, coolant temp, oil pressure, etc. this will give it to you without having to install senders or run wires.

HTH,

-Sean
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robertglines1
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 04:45:11 PM »

Interesting. I need to digest this a little. I have a nephew/computer geek I want to read your response. He keeps saying I want to do your dash. Might just turn him loose. Dash is one area not touched yet. Don't need it for at least 3 months so he has time. He has bus fever...  Just needs a little direction senior in computer at USI.   Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 05:40:30 PM »

The glass dash is neat I love watching one power up at night.

I had one it took  me 2 weeks to convince the wife that was what was needed then I found out I needed to change to a electronic engine to make the dash work, when I ran that by her I got the registered bull at a bastard calf look so I sent it back to Karl Blades at Newell 

I saw one for sale at a RV salvage in Phoenix not long ago in a Country Coach for 2 grand and you remove if interested I can check on it for you Bob
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robertglines1
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 06:20:03 PM »

Chris: Nephew, is hot on this--will be good experience for him and is part of the interesting part of bus building. Actually he is future nephew. So he is trying to make impression.  This could be interesting Grin. I have given him the basic info. I will post progress and ideas as a ongoing topic. I really do like the  look and easy glance.   Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 06:27:39 PM »

Our x president of the Eagles is going to use the glass dash in his new Eagle he is working on no way is he going to let Prevost be the only bus with a glass dash lol all the later Newells have the SliverLeaf dash
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2012, 06:38:08 PM »

We are talking about two different technologies.  The SilverLeaf Glass Dash not only displays engine information, but quite a bit of "house" information as well (with certain additional hardware).  However, the big difference is that the glass dash displays quite a bit of the engine information in digitally created "analog" gauges (with an option of digital display as well).  The screen technology is quite different from a standard computer monitor.  Much brighter colors that don't wash out in the sun.  The technology is the same as that used in aircraft.

The VMSpc gives you the same engine data, but with much more limited display options.  There are no "analog" display options.  Even the best computer monitors will tend to have some "quality loss" in sunlight.

Several folks have fabricated "component" computers, used VMSpc software, and a high quality built-in monitor.  It is a nice looking dash, but a far cry from the glass dash.  

Bob, if your nephew is going to try to replicate the glass dash, I would like to follow his work.

Jim

« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:40:51 PM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
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Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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robertglines1
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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2012, 06:55:27 PM »

He keeps asking me what all I want in dash so it's time for me to decide. I know basics engine info plus air pressure,speed, fuel level, tire air pressure ,rear view camera GPS.Engine codes. I do know he has working dash in his truck he built from scratch. You guys talk differant language than I. I just read it.     Jim ; I have your # see how this develops. Bob
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 07:09:29 PM by robertglines1 » Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 08:18:18 AM »

Hi Robert,

I have an Eagle Model 20 with standard dash.  My Silverleaf, hooked to my wife's laptop, confirms (or denies) what the Eagle dash instruments tell me.  However, the Silverleaf tells it to me NOW!  For instance, I like to pay particular attention to both the inlet air temperature and the coolant temperature.  Only the coolant temperature is available on the Eagle dash and it is somewhat slow to display.  Both are available on the Silverleaf and are immediate!

There are a myriad of readings available via the Silverleaf which are not shown on the original dash instruments; i.e., current fuel mileage, past fuel mileage, fuel remaining in tank, audible warnings for low fuel, speeding above you preset limit, etc. 

You can display the letters and numerals in your choice of colors AND, you can make them as big as you like - really nice for old folks!
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gary t'berry
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 09:08:52 AM »

I looked at the new ProDriver in Arrows Setra buses they have made big improvements on that unit,I never cared for the older small screen units they were impossible to see now they have more features than the Sliver/Leaf but at a cost lol

good luck
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 09:36:22 AM »

Bob, quite a few of the things you want are not on the multiplex network from the engine or transmission.  As a result, they will need to have their own "adapters" to convert the information to CAN multiplex protocol.  SilverLeaf uses SAE J1708 and J1939 protocols that the engine and transmission produce/communicate with.  For non-engine/transmission data for their Glass Dash, they communicate via a protocol developed for the RV industry and use special "adapters" to convert the sensor data to the multiplex protocol.  

The technology is described here:  http://www.rv-c.com/.  If your nephew is not already familiar with CAN technology, he has a big mountain to climb.  He will need to thoroughly study the RV-C website.

An example of an existing "adapter" is the Pressure Pro bridge.  Pressure Pro developed the circuitry to converts the data from the tires sensors into CAN data that is streamed on the multiplex network.  SilverLeaf then takes that data stream, converts it with their software so that it can be displayed (on all VMS products).

I am not an expert, but I worked with Martin on a project to make my fire detection system multiplex compatible.  Never got it done (would have required a complete redesign of the circuit board).  However, I got a bit of an understanding of what was involved.

If you nephew wants to talk about the 101 level of this technology, have him give me a call.

Jim

« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 09:45:05 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
rv_safetyman
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2012, 09:53:26 AM »

A possible approach your nephew could use is to go to a truck wrecking yard and find a truck with an electronic dash (most are today).  That dash will have one or more "translator" boxes (located in strange places) that take signals for the various truck sensors (not engine/transmission data) and convert it to the proper protocol.  He would need to get all the sensors as well (again, we are not talking about engine or transmission data - rather things like fuel level, air pressures, etc).

Then he has two options.  First, he could simply install the dash out of the truck.  That will give him/you about 50-70% of the available data.  It will not give you things like air inlet temperature and a few other variables.  OR, he could take the multiplex data out of the "translator" box(s) and write the software to convert the raw data so that it can be presented on a display.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
’85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
robertglines1
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 12:02:10 PM »

I'm sure he will understand everything you just said. We do have access to a large late model truck wrecking yard. Any particular model? I do have a call in to him. The engine/trans combo is out of a 2000 Freightlinner DDEC IV & Eaton 10spd Autoshift. Matched pair.. Computers still hooked together. I have the dash digital readout unit for trans that came out of donor truck.Also have all wire diagrams for that truck related to engine trans. Would be nice to just connect to port next to drivers seat and recover all the engine and trans data and display current data. Anything else is a plus. Interesting project. In my case isn't a bank breaker because I have saved $ on other parts of this project thru lucky purchases.    Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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