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Author Topic: "WARNING", very long post, interesting only to those converting DD3 Brakes  (Read 737 times)
Gary LaBombard
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« on: October 28, 2012, 11:16:24 AM »

The following documented information and my actual air brake line conversion from DD-3 brakes to spring brakes took many months to actually draw and do.  Just writing this bulletin board document took hours. This information is boring to those not really liking my posted information so donít waste your time reading it all now either!  Those really interested and wishing for the package of information I have made and I offer to share can email me directly and I will send it within a couple of days of receiving your request.  Please do not waste my time in a request for this information if you are a naysayer of anything I post especially this lengthy post.  
Thanks ahead of time,
Gary


CONVERTING (DD-3 BRAKES TO TOTAL SPRING BRAKES) ON A 1973 Model (05) EAGLEI need to include a little disclaimer here and state that I copied this air schematic from a Bendix (6 wheel truck air schematic).  This information I offer is only to be considered as a guide should you choose to also do as I did and remove your DD3 Brakes and Convert to Spring Brakes for your bus.  
Before I get started on this post, be (For-warned) that this is a long post and beneficial only to those seriously wanting the information I have for my conversion of DD-3 Brakes to Total Spring Brakes.  Do not waste your time reading this post if you really are not interested in changing your brake systems as I know some of you particularly do not like my long post.
  
With that all done I will tell the rest of you reading this what I did to convert my Eagle air brake system which I converted totally including new lines, all new valves etc. and sensors.  I will also tell you that every original air line connection joint I went to loosen up to remove had very little resistance using a wrench at all!! Nearly every air fitting or connection all were at the danger of leaking if they already werenít, I canít tell you if they did or not but I guarantee they are all tight now and with all new parts and sealed with thread compound and not white Teflon thread tape.
 
I will also tell you that this is one job also that you cannot rush and you may think can be done properly in a day or two.  I had to learn a schematic drawing software program and then convert my bus design where all my tanks are etc. and do a complete schematic special just for my bus.  I have relocated absolutely everything and nothing is located in its original location.  So I will also give you this information to consider.  I am giving you a website address for a FREE drafting software program that you can download and use and I did my entire schematic using this software.  Go to (www.draftsight.com).  It took me several days to get comfortable with this software and with the help from a very good friend, (Jon Morris) who gave me several tips to help me out I was able to continue to design and draw my air brake system schematic.  I sure am grateful for him I will tell you.  Learning this drawing procedure was a challenge for one who has not had to work with making a schematic before.
  
Now I will also tell you ahead of time that this free drafting program I am going to send you & is in PDF form exactly as the original drawing I made and the locations of all valves and tanks are closely related in the drawing to where I have actually installed them in my bus..  If you really are interested in how I learned to re-plumed my full air brake system, I recommend that you download the above software program from draftsight and make a corresponding air schematic for your own bus as I have.
  
My schematic has been approved by a very knowledgeable bus nut friend for my particular air brake application & I wanted to post an address below for you to write to me requesting this information I have put together if you wish.   I will send you a PDF drawing of my schematic with a list also of all the valves you will need to purchase for a new system.  The cost of all the valves was in the vicinity of $300 without looking at all my old bills.  My old valves were not useable or compatible for my dual spring brake system and I sure do not take any chances if I donít have to for safety using our bus.  The cost of all the DOT brass fittings, DOT bulkhead fittings, air lines is near $1,000 + or - $100 I believe.  I have not installed the new (#16 brake chambers for the front and bogie wheels or the new 30/30 chambers for the drive wheels) and also have not purchased the lines connecting these chambers at this time.  That is another cost I do not have available as yet, my guess would be $300-400 for all.  So changing out my air brake system is going to be a estimate of $1,700 - $1,900!! You may have to install new brake shoes also which is not cheap either, you can add nearly ($800 or more for this if needed), this is something to consider and that is doing it yourself and installing all new air brake lines and hardware.  You may be able to have someone else do this brake conversion but the importance of this job is too great to not have the responsibility yourself to know the job was done correctly and nothing cheated on.  

The PDF schematic I am sending you also has a list of the new air control valves you will need to purchase for a Dual Brake control system.  The only difference in this dual brake system per the original Bendix control schematic is that the (R-14) valve in my drawing is not included connecting the bogie wheels.  Some may say you can eliminate part of this air brake system of mine, this is your choice.  What I offer you is the recommended set up from Bendix, (Six Wheel Truck Schematic) and the brake system converted very carefully by me to have peace of mind when traveling that my brakes are in great shape.  This is information not offered for our conversions by anyone else I know of and I offer it only again as a guide for you to consider.  
This is not a cheap job to do, is very time consuming but very rewarding when completed.
  
I used a Bendix Brakes drawing of a (6 wheel truck) to copy and convert to my schematic which you cannot get impatient doing.  My actual bus drawing schematic is pretty darn close to the actual location of all my air tanks, valves and sensors. Some things look good on paper on a regular schematic but you cannot sometimes locate the hardware for you brake system such as the 6 wheel truck did. I had to make daily changes to my original schematic at the end of a day to record any changes I had to make in my assembly of my brake system.  I have enclosed all my air tanks but one, all my valves and 99% of my air lines so that none of them are ever exposed to weather or debris again.  
I am having a good bus nut friend go over my schematic before I post it on any bus nut bulletin board, so that this information about my bus is as correct as it can be and it can be considered as a (GUIDE ONLY) to do your system if that is what you plan to do or wish to. Again, this is not the way you have to install your new system; this is what worked for me so use it as a guide only for your very own system.
  
If you do a complete job such as I did you are in for sticker shock at the cost of brass DOT fittings to do a complete job.  Each time I ran a new air line through the bus tunnel I always, always used a bulkhead fitting instead of a rubber grommet to protect the air line if I had to go through a bulkhead or deck for a lower tank such as in front.  The use of new air lines should be considered also as you install 5/8Ē line connecting the brake tanks for more air volume in each line than the original bus design and also for the actual use at the new brake canisters for the same reason.  The original air line installation on my bus had rubber grommets in many areas that were rotted out and the lines were wearing through from the vibration and cutting motion of the copper lines resting on the bare metal of the bus bulkheads.  The use of all bulkhead air fittings also added greatly to the cost of the brass DOT fittings but after looking at what I accomplished I feel really good I made the right decision using the bulkhead fittings every place where needed. .  
You will need a hole saw for drilling out for each bulkhead fitting, you also need a good grade of thread sealing compound to be used on every fitting assembly.
 
I also started my brake valve installation using the push in type of connector.  Oh man do they make the job great and quick, bu$$$$$$ the push in connectors are all about 3 times more expensive than the old type of screw on compression type connectors.  I really wish I had used the compression type of connector now instead of the new more expensive push in DOT connectors as it would have cost maybe Ĺ or less of what I really paid.  I got about 30 connectors to begin my new brake installation for $300 of the push in type but when you start this complete job you will need a heck of a lot more than 30 fittings, believe me. I finished the job, maybe over half of it with compression fittings as I ran out of the convenient push in type.  If you have deep pockets then by all means go for the push in type connectors as they are so easy to work with and having a swivel end on 90 deg. Etc. makes it easier to locate your air lines if everything is not square or lined up as you wish them to be and they will not be either.
  
The Schematic drawing I will send you will each be labeled on both ends of every line and connection, such as (A-1 to air tank #3 then the opposite end of this line is labeled A-1a from Wet Tank #1).  This is to make the location of each end  easier to find and understand without too much thinking.
 
Each schematic air line will be color coded for easier tracing to consider what you wish to do.
 
What I do recommend also is that you make your schematic and perhaps try to contact Bendix Technicians by phone and request that your schematic be examined by them to make sure your bus will be compatible with your drawing and my information I sent you. I am trying everything I can do to protect myself and steer you into the right direction for this valuable information.
  
The information I will send you by email is the following:
1)   MY personal Eagle bus air brake system PDF schematic converted from a (Six Wheel Truck) actual Bendix schematic.  NOTE: you can copy this PDF drawing on a flash drive and go to any office max etc. store to have an enlarged drawing produced for you to work with and protected with plastic as well.
 
2)   List of Air Brake valves needed for the Dual Air Brake system I used to do my air brake conversion.  Be sure to use all new parts from a Bendix store.

3)   Air line connection Check Off List to use as a guide to make your schematic and also to use as a check off list after you have started your air brake conversion to assure you have not forgotten to assemble anything.  Again, this is a guide only.

My thanks go out to Jon Morris, SC, helping me learn to do schematic drawings, Dave Brawdy, Pullman, Washington for his support and the tedious job of converting this information of mine to a PDF drawing.  I also thank the one bus nut that took the time away from his business and job to look my personal schematic over before I post any of this information for you all to also have.  He knows who he is and I sure do owe him.

The email address to write a request for this information package from me is:
busconverter101@aol.com
Thank you again,
Gary
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 12:04:15 PM by Gary LaBombard » Logged

Gary
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2012, 11:25:26 AM »

Gary,I enjoy your posts when I have time to read one but for the life of me I don't see why you just didn't use the model 15 air schematics with the dual air system it would have saved you a lot of time as it was engineered by Bendix and Eagle

good luck
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2012, 11:33:19 AM »

Cliff,
I could not find any such drawing and no one even mentioned to do this.  I did what I had to for me and now everyone has a choice to do it my way or the model 15 way.  Thanks from everyone for this additional information Cliff.  Everyone talks of changing over from DD3's this no one offers the information I am on how to do it or as thoroughly as I tried to do.  Hope it helps others if needed.  Perhaps the Model 15 drwg. is much simplier to work with, but I am sure it does not show the actual locations of each valve as I have so no one has to guess where it is located. 
Thanks again Cliff,
Gary
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2012, 12:56:37 PM »

Yes it does Gary I'll copy one for you and send it to you then you can compare the 2 ok the Flx Group has some drawing also you do good work don't get me wrong 

I admire that and your dedication to a project just sometimes there are easier ways to do a project



good luck 
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