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Author Topic: Exhaust & Turbo Insulating  (Read 2231 times)
Sam 4106
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« on: October 16, 2012, 01:26:35 PM »

After our trip to the cancer clinic at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, tomorrow through Sunday, we will be putting the bus away in my heated shop for the winter. I have been planning a few projects for the next several months including insulating the exhaust pipes and turbo. Is it feasible to also insulate the exhaust manifolds? Would it help to insulate the muffler too? What is the best source of the materials? Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks, Sam
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
gus
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 01:46:37 PM »

The EHP wet blanket is the good stuff I always use.

Go to their website http://www.engineheatprotection.com/

Most helpful people I've ever seen, always gave me personal service for my small orders and are eager to help you with any special requirements.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 01:58:24 PM »

We all do it different I don't care for the tape or the wet blanket me with the 8v92 I would buy the removable type from someone like Firwin or others manufactures and do the manifolds also JMW I had those on my Eagle for years but it will cost you lol, and I would not do the muffler  

The last set I purchased was from Ca, Advanced Thermal Products www.atpwrap.com
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 02:20:54 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Sam 4106
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 02:47:10 PM »

Hi Clifford,

I hoped you would respond. I saw the insulation job you did on your 8V92 in June when we were in Medora, ND and got together with Matt and Carolee. I liked what I saw and that's what got me to thinking about doing that on our bus. Can the insulation from Advanced Thermal Products be removed, without damage, and reused if you have to change the manifold gaskets or work on the turbo?

My wife may change my mind once I find out how much it costs. LOL Our bedroom gets quite warm after driving for a few hours and doesn't cool off enough before we go to bed. Is there any other benefit to insulating the exhaust and turbo, like increased boost?

Thanks, Sam
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1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
luvrbus
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 02:55:51 PM »

Yes it is removable Sam I still have the manifold wraps that will be covered in Matts warranty lol
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 04:33:28 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Zeroclearance
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 04:09:14 PM »

Another vote for the ATP system.   I had them build blankets for my S60 exhaust manifold, turbine housing, downpipe and valve cover.   It's amazing how quiet it us up in the bedroom with the blanket installed.   The HEAT generated is alot less and noted also in the bedroom.

The folks are great to deal with at ATP.   I had them redesign the turbocharger turbine blanket.   I helped them redo there pattern for the actuators.

It's a great product..
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Gordie Allen
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 07:12:42 PM »



I wrapped my manifold with three layers of 2" and 1" width fiberglass composite for about $70.00, and took about an hour - most of that figuring out the best wrapping pattern.  Don't know how that compares with the other options.  I bought 1" glass blanket to wrap mufflers and insulate engine compartment above the manifold, but have not installed yet.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 07:33:04 PM by Gordie Allen » Logged

Augusta, MI
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2012, 07:21:24 PM »

Bad idea to wrap a cast iron manifold on a 2 stroke with that type wrap fwiw Grodie
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Gordie Allen
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 07:39:10 PM »

luvrbus,
What's the issue?  Too hot?  Too much expansion?  I don't want a cracked manifold.
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Augusta, MI
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 08:09:26 PM »

these are nice.


http://removable-insulation-blankets.firwin.com/viewitems/engine-insulation/detroit-diesel-engine-insulation?&pagenum=2
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Donald PH
1978 Model 05 Eagle w/Torsilastic Suspension,8V71 NA, DDAllison on 24.5's 12kw Kubota.
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2012, 08:26:35 PM »

Harco Mfg. in Portland made my wraps.  Similar to the pieces that Clifford had made, stitch them together with stainless wire.  I did everything from the turbo downstream, Cummins engineering did not recommend a turbo wrap.  I also wrapped the CAC pipe and muffler as it is in the stock location for a model 10, above the tailgate. Used the same 1200 deg. insulation for the panels under the bed, we have a cool bedroom when we stop.
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wayne
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2012, 09:50:11 PM »

I used the ATP wrap that Clifford suggested. Fantastic stuff, wonderful fiit. I have taken it off and reinstalled without any issue. I did the complete system all the way to the exhaust tip. The people at ATP are great and will work with any design you have, not cheap but it does make a difference.

Good Luck
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rusty
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 06:04:00 AM »

I put the ATP wrap on 8 years ago. When I got home from Branson I noticed a small exhaust leak. I am in the process of removing the blanket to check everything. I thought the blanket would be dirty and need to be replaced. I was amazed how good the inside of the blanket looked. Had a few black spots but most of it was still white. It is easy to remove and replace. I will definitely be using it on my 15 and will use from turbo to where the exhaust exits the coach. It makes things a lot cooler in the engine compartment.

Wayne
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wagwar
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2012, 05:38:24 PM »

I have the 6V92T DD. Should the cast manifolds be wrapped or just the turbo and exhaust pipe?  Why should you not wrap the cast manifolds with the tape as shown above?

TIA
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luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2012, 06:28:52 PM »

Cast if allowed to cool and heat fast will become brittle and break I replaced several on DD that broke wrapped with tape,Thermo/Tec has a warning on the package about wrapping cast iron manifolds on their wrap packaging

good luck
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gus
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2012, 06:48:15 PM »

EHP wet blanket is easily removable, done it many times.

When it dries it is like an arm cast, hard and absolutely heat proof. Once dried it is wrapped with plain ole Al tape. To remove just cut it where you want with a box knife and it comes off in however many pieces you want.

It is slow drying in cool weather, starting the engine and heating the exh system greatly speeds up the drying.

To reinstall it just wrap it with Al tape again and go. Or, you can wrap it again with more wet blanket or a dry blanket for that matter, then the Al tape. You can make it as thick or as thin s you want.

I don't like the SS bands because they cut the cast from vibration, no such problem with Al tape.

No, I have no connection to EHP but I know how well it works.
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 08:27:19 AM »

Are any of the EHP, Firwin or ATP blankets Ok for cast manifolds or better to just leave them wide open to the air?

Thanks.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 08:38:37 AM »

The blankets work good on the manifolds they let it cool down gradually I would not use the EHP on the manifolds only the blankets the blankets do increase your boost pressure fwiw

good luck
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TomC
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 12:53:55 PM »

The pre made to order blankets with the stainless wire holding it together is the best.  Easily removable, and lasts a long time.  I have about 1,100 hours on my genset and the blanket still looks new.

Considering the new truck manufacturers are trying to squeeze every drop out of the fuel now with the new Green House Gases regulation, I still don't see the OEM's wrapping their exhaust.  If it was so good, don't you think the OEM's would use it-especially to cut down the under hood temps?

Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 01:35:18 PM »

When I was making race car exhaust headers  I used to tell people that if they wrapped the header, the warranty expired at my shop door.  I repaired so many cracked and rotted headers that were wrapped, but people still did it - the idea was that keeping the heat in kept the exhaust energy inside the pipe, and made more power because the flow rate was higher.  That would jibe with Clifford's comment that boost pressure are higher.  What we went to on mild steel exhausts was aerospace ceramic coating inside and out.  Radically reduced the temps - you could almost put your hand on the pipe a minute after you shut off the engine.  Lasted extremely well, but you could not repair the tube without grinding off the coating inside and out, which was a pain.  With stainless steel or inconel, we left the pipes bare, since stainless naturally transfers a lot less heat than mild steel.

Look into ceramic coating in your area.  Near where I was, there was a local company that would coat anything extremely reasonably.  The local drag racers were ceramic coating their piston tops, which speaks to how robust the stuff is...  Plus you can get it in any colour...  maybe even DD green!

Brian
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2012, 05:47:07 PM »

sorry, I still have a lot to learn...

Is increasing the boost pressure bad? If so, then why put blankets on?  What are the advantages (other than lower engine compartment temps) and disadvantages?

Thanks.
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 03:43:15 AM »

Jim, to net it out, the advantage is two-fold - reduced under hood temps and a slight, possibly nominal, performance gain.  The disadvantage is reduced life of exhaust components, possible cracking of cast iron components and more rapid deterioration of tube components.  I personally think keeping the turbo warmer is bad for it, but I may be mistaken on that, don't know much about turbo's.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 06:10:11 AM »

Blankets are cheap insurance for a bus so many burn from engine fires caused by oil spraying on hot components or a manifold  or exhaust pipe breaking the blankets prevent that, they are required by the US Forest Service when working there with heavy equipment.

I think but I am not for sure the Coast Guard requires blankets also in some applications it is hard to find a diesel boat without blankets  

A turbo will cool down faster with a blanket compared to one without and I never blanket the cold side only the hot side some do both 

To me they are worth the money after seeing engine fires JMO
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 06:18:33 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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gus
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2012, 01:34:21 PM »

I can't think of even one reason not to use wet blankets on manifolds, or any cast iron, I do it all the time.

Since the wet blanket becomes a dry molded casting it is better to me since it is one piece.

It is not a tight fit since it shrinks a tiny bit when drying and it sure does stop radiated heat.
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