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Author Topic: Crate motor?  (Read 3877 times)
roadrunnertex
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« on: November 13, 2006, 10:03:20 AM »

Say Bus folks!
Every now and then I will see the term crate motor used for the engine in a bus.
I am from the old school and this ia a new play on words to me.
Does this term mean a new factory engine?
Or does it mean something else like it's a maginal engine almost need of major repair?
Thanks
jlv
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tekebird
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2006, 10:34:04 AM »

Crate motor refers to a new factor engine 0 hours from new.  Not rebuilt, not overhauled, not transplanted.

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gus
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2006, 10:14:54 PM »

I often see mention of 6-71 crate motors but thought production of this engine was stopped years ago. I always assumed this meant factory o/h with new parts?

So, does this mean new 6-71s are available?
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gg04
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 07:19:26 AM »

You can still buy factory new 6L71's...In either marine or ta ddec configuration....most of the crate motors out there are remans though...Sand S or one of the other reliabilt remanufacturers..nearly all of the transit company crate engines and trans we have bought have been remans (Reliabilt) and mostly S&S..gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
RJ
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 07:24:23 AM »


S and S or one of the other reliabilt remanufacturers.


Stewart & Stephenson?
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RJ Long
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2006, 07:41:05 AM »

Sorry yep lStewart and Stephenson..gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
Stan
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2006, 09:20:25 AM »

Just curious. Do all these posts refer to the V block or the inline or both?
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lostagain
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2006, 12:06:03 PM »

I have heard that DD just got a long term contract with the US military to supply 71 series engines. Because it is such a good, reliable, easy to maintain and rebuild in the field. Any body heard of such a thing? I know that DD dealers can get me a "crate", (new) 4-71T, because I asked. ($10 000.00).
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JC
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2006, 12:47:55 PM »

Serial no. in my bus 06A0474864-10602B0L-2046.....casting no.0278... tag.DD new manfu. certified to meet emmision standards (then stamped by hand) 1992  date of manufacture.2/2001..Not sure of the casting date of these blocks...i do not know if they are new or just new old stock....mine came out of a 92 metro from Phoenix . All of the motors they had for replacements were remans...old blocks and head castings with all other parts new....Any marine dealer will sell you either new or reliabilt..your choice.right or left hand...Do not know date of manufacture..The only new old part I have not been able to find is a aluminum block...have found four used ones but not one has been useable...Keep hearing of them but have found none avaliable yet...gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
tekebird
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2006, 12:50:06 PM »

as of last year DD is no longer making new 2 strokes

That is not to say that

1. they don't have them in stock
2. they are around through other channels


DD has not produced Highway 71's for years, however there is little difference between the highway and industrila/marine applications from most perspectives.

the Crate, brand new, not rebuilt 6-71 That was installed in my 4104 was an industrial model.  My DD guy, hassinger diesel Service of Middleburg, PA ( father son operation that specializes in DD only) did the modifications thatw ere necessary and swaped all the GM COach bolt on  items.

I have seen numerous 6-71 6v71, 8v71 engines in both normal and turbo versions in governement auctions, all of which were brand new with    documentation, still on the pallets from DD......although they were almost all painted Grey or OD.

People are so quick to want to repower to a newer motor......not thinking that what they have presently is just tired and worn out.

my 04 now can keep up with just about any newer coach making 400+ HP on all but a few eastern grades.  On a head to head trip against my dad's 4108 (8v71/v730) it has no issues at all keeping up

yes she is a bit slow oout of the hole, but who cares.

the "slow" DD 2 strokes are much lower in maint cost as they are stone age smple.....no computers, modules or expensive equipment needed to maintain let alone find out what is wrong with it.

and they all can be tuned to make more HP.........I have a buddy with a 46 foot cheasapeake bay crab boat who has a 6-71 T which makes 400+ horse

the limitting factor is really the transmissions V config.

for anyone who is interested in a new crate motor drop me a note
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tekebird
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2006, 12:54:46 PM »

note on Military versions of 71's.

Last I read anything tDD was stopping manufacture as equipment powered by 71's were being decomissioned.......thus why military spares are being auctioned off.

New marine and industrial versions are no lnger being produced either but they are available.

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gus
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 06:55:02 PM »

Stan,

I'm not sure anyone answered your question;

If has no V after the number of cyl (471, 671) it is a straight engine.

The Vs go like this; 6V71, 8V71, 6V92, 8V92 and etc.

These are all bus engines but some others go all the way up to 16 cyl!!.

There are a bunch of other letters for Turbo, Aftercooled and etc.
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Jeremy
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2006, 02:49:51 AM »

If it's any help as a comparison, Rover stopped making their V8 engine a few years ago when the current (BMW powered) Range Rover came out. But you can still buy new 'Rover V8s' because there are now other companies manufacturing them - presumably the foundaries actually casting the blocks have bought the manufacturing rights or are paying a licence to Rover for each one they make.

Obviously it's unusual for other comapnies to take over the manufacture of an 'obsolete' engine - in the case of the Rover V8 it was worth doing because there is very strong demand for the engine from sports car builders and the aftermarket generally. It could be that a similar thing has happened with your Detroit engines and industrial users.

Jeremy
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2006, 05:27:18 AM »

gusc: Thanks for your reply. I understand the number system of DD engines but all the comments up to the point of my first post only referred to inline engines. Since that post there has been a multitude of WAGs, not facts. There have been statements that DD stopped making 71 series all the way from 1999 to 2005. 

Many people post incorrect information when somebody asks about a problem. The usual sugestion is to read all the posts and pick out the answer you think is correct. That may work for the person with experience, but is no help to a newbie. Which answer to you pick here?

Does anybody on the board have any proof to show if and when DD stopped making  71 series engines in some particular configuration? Are military, marine, industrial, transportation versions still being made in either inline or V style?
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keithshotrodshop
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2006, 05:40:11 AM »

I have no idea as to whether or not they are being built, however I do post one question. Every marine and industrial application motor I have seen has the blower on the pass side of the motor. Are bus blocks the only ones with a drivers side blower?
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Busted Knuckle
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2006, 05:52:38 AM »

I have no idea as to whether or not they are being built, however I do post one question. Every marine and industrial application motor I have seen has the blower on the pass side of the motor. Are bus blocks the only ones with a drivers side blower?

No but bus engines are installed "backards which reverses the apparance of the motor ! I believe if'd put 'm side by side on stands they'd be the same (I think! ) BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2006, 08:59:30 AM »

I don't recall the actual date now that I checked this on the DD website, but it was after 2001.....at that time they were still making (selling) new  stroke 8v71  Military engines.
 They had no mention of Marine or other applications Likely due to emissions.......Military don't give a crap about emissions

Currently the website mentions nothing but MB and the series 60.

Note: When I saw the 71 info the website listed the Series 40 and 50 as well as the 92 series

I would make a good guess that DD will not sell you a crate 2 stroke.......they likely sold all those to engine suppliers for the Industrial and marine industries.

I just spoke with my Cra Fishing buddy,  He can still order factory new ( not rebuit) replacements for his 6-71 turbo powerplant.  Not from DD but from any number of marine engine suppliers

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tekebird
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2006, 09:25:32 AM »

New Surpls 6-71ta Highway

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/index.cfm
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2006, 10:40:06 AM »

The TD-20 was an International crawler with a 6 cylinder International diesel. Perhaps you're thinking of the TC-12 built by Euclid division of GM, first built in the early 50's. Two 6-71's, each driving one track through an Allison transmission.
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Stan
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2006, 12:37:01 PM »

Dallas: Here is a quote from an Allis Chalmers site: <The HD20 features a long forgotten Detroit Diesel engine called the 6-110. In keeping with Detroit Diesel convention the first number represents the number of cylinders and the second number represents the cubic inch displacement per cylinder. >

This realy has nothing to do with the question but anybody around the oilpatch in the 50.s must have seen the "1 0ver 2" DD power plant. A left and right 6-71 side by side with another sitting on top. These three were coupled to a unit called a Hydramat which was a torque converter which used water as the fluid coupling. DD were common in the oilfield until the price of fuel started to go up and then Cat took over.
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TomC
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2006, 01:25:17 PM »

I've seen just about any configuration you could imagine from the 2 strokers.  With 6-71- in boats, the left and right engines are mirrored for center of boat checking and maintenence; 2 and 4 engines working through a bull gear (each engine had a clutch for disconnect to shut down to do maintenence as the other engines were running); 12V-71 generator on an oil rig standing upright with the bottom of the generator with a water cooled thrust bearing to support the weight; Lay down under both a Gillig and Crown bus; Lay down in boats.  Probably the versitile engine ever made.
Detroit officially stopped building the 2 strokers at the end of 1998.  They are still making enough of the engines for military uses where the vehicle was designed around the engine and no other engine would work.  The engines I know they are still making are the 6V-53TA; 8V-71TA; 12V-71TA; 8V-92TA-but not for public since these engines do not meet present day smog laws.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
tekebird
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2006, 02:13:08 PM »

6-110..............these were used in Budd RDC Cars ( Railroad)

The RDC Rail Diesel Car are double ended passenger units that have a 6-110 driving each truck through a transmission, either engine can run the unit.

the 110 has a very similar sound to the 6-71

There are a numbe rof these units still in opperation around the country
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gus
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2006, 09:15:28 PM »

Anybody notice that roadrunnertex has not been heard from?

From the way this string has wandered I don't blame him!!
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Stan
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2006, 05:51:27 AM »

Roadrunner's question was answered before the thread wandered off. He has a choice of a dozen different answers, everyone the absolute correct info that came from a second cousin's good friend who is a mechanic with many years of experience fixing Toyotas.
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roadrunnertex
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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2006, 05:59:39 AM »

 Huh
I still trying to understand & digest all the information that has been posted.
Lot's of neat information.
JLV
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Lee Bradley
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2006, 08:08:12 AM »

Dallas,
For a photo of a TC-12, owned by a man who treats his tractor like we do buses, go to http://discuss.ibdozing.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi then Euclid/Terrex and click on the TC-12 Working thread.
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gus
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2006, 02:40:33 PM »

JLV,

Notice that even though it is your string you are being ignored?? Funny!
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PD4107-152
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Dallas
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2006, 03:12:01 PM »

Sorry John, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. I was under the asumption that your question had been answered.

I have taken the liberty of deleting all of my posts on this thread that did not pertain to your question.

I apologize.

Dallas
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roadrunnertex
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2006, 06:23:58 PM »

Dallas,
I wish that you would not have deleted your post as there was some good information in them.
Us folks with these L/H rotation Detroits need all the ideas and information we can find.
Thanks for you input.
JLV Roll Eyes
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Dallas
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2006, 06:35:34 PM »

John, If you need any information that I can supply, I'll be glad to send it too you.

After all, Turnabout is fairplay! You've been a big help to me!

Dallas
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2006, 08:34:18 PM »

Dallas,
I wish that you would not have deleted your post as there was some good information in them.
Us folks with these L/H rotation Detroits need all the ideas and information we can find.
Thanks for you input.
JLV Roll Eyes

Yea Dallas, how about going back and putting them back in? Those drawings were great.
Eichard
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Dallas
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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2006, 03:47:42 AM »

I moved the picture of the 5 inline 71 series setups/rotations here:

http://busphotos.busconversionstuff.com/photo/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=0&pos=-5
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