Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
July 31, 2014, 10:50:25 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: It arrives at least two weeks before the First Class printed magazine.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Electrical Panel Breakers  (Read 864 times)
Tikvah
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 517



WWW

Ignore
« on: November 26, 2012, 06:56:52 AM »

I'm going to start building an electrical panel.  I'm looking at some breakers for the DC runs instead of fuses.
I saw these on ebay:
push button circuit breaker for operation up to 50 volts DC or 250 volts AC.   The buyer can choose 5 amp, 10 amp, 15, 20 amp, 25 amp or 30 amp operation.

My question is, these state they can be used for AC or DC.  Is there any reasonable reason why I can't build both AC and DC panels using these breakers?

Dave
Logged

I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2544


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 09:21:24 AM »

Three reasons.

First, code requires you to use a listed panelboard, and you will not find one that accepts these breakers.  Making your own panelboard from listed components requires engineering supervision.

Second, and more importantly, this type of breaker trips thermally only, whereas household or marine breakers trip both thermally and magnetically.  Thermal trip is generally too slow for a major overload, opening the possibility of damaging connected equipment.

Third, with this type of push-on blade connection, I see no way you could make these into a panel without individual jumper wires feeding each breaker, and those wires would be unprotected.  You would need a style that has screw terminals so that you could fabricate some kind of buss bar to feed them

By the time you make a panel and all the buss bars, and buy yourself a selection of these breakers, you probably will not save any money over a small household load center at a big box store, either.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Tikvah
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 517



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 09:24:18 AM »

That's exactly what I needed to know.

So, to clarify, do you find them acceptable for DC loads?
Logged

I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
eagle19952
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 834




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 09:48:40 AM »

i like these :



or these..


Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2544


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 12:15:10 PM »

... So, to clarify, do you find them acceptable for DC loads?


Yes.  However, they do not provide any way to turn off a DC circuit, the way a handle-type CB does.  Even blade fuses can be removed to disconnect a circuit.  For that reason, you might consider a different style.  There do exist thermal-type breakers in more or less this form-factor that have a small button or lever which serves to pop the reset button out and disconnect the circuit.

Now that I think about it, that's yet another reason these ought not be used on the AC side:  Code requires each circuit to have a "disconnecting means."  A conventional household or marine breaker serves this purpose at the same time it offers circuit protection -- disconnecting a circuit is as simple as moving the breaker handle.  With a breaker of the type shown, you would need a disconnect switch for each circuit downstream of the breaker, adding to the cost and complexity.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Tikvah
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 517



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 01:16:05 PM »

That makes sense Sean,  Thanks so much
Logged

I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5396




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 02:02:39 PM »

I used two small Blue Seas fuse blocks for my DC stuff.  They use ATC fuses.  You can buy ATC fuses just about anywhere.  I have a ton of them as I used to buy them as cheap fillers when I needed a minimum order from an electrical supplier.  I have not blown enough fuses for DC circuit breakers to be useful.  I do have one DC device that required use of a circuit breaker and not a fuse.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Boomer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 617




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 02:52:18 PM »

During conversion of my Silverside we relied heavily on Blue Sea products.  Used their panels for both AC and DC, as well as their fuse boxes and high capacity breakers. They are very high quality, marine grade.  Also, all fuses are the new LED type.
Logged

'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
Vancouver, WA USA
Midwilshire
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 155





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 05:30:15 PM »

Dave, we must be at the same point in the conversion process (buy that mini-split yet?)....   

I considered these sorts of breakers, but the cost for one that you can turn off manually -- like in the Cessnas and Pipers -- is cost prohibitive for me. 

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/circuit-breakers/push-pull-circuit-breaker?

A little better on price, but a little more uncertain, can be had at online auction sites.

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=circuit+breaker&_sacat=26435&_dmpt=Motors_Aviation_Parts_Gear&_odkw=&_osacat=26435&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313

So I'm going with two Blue Sea fuse panels, one for 12v and one for 24v, because the install is cleaner in my opinion, and I can go through a whole lot of fuses (which is likely anyway) before breaking even with the circuit breaker route.

Mike
Logged

Michael & Gigi
1978 MCI-5C "Silverliner"
Tampa, FL
FloridaCliff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2458


"The Mighty GMC"




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 05:51:56 PM »

Yes.  However, they do not provide any way to turn off a DC circuit, the way a handle-type CB does.  Even blade fuses can be removed to disconnect a circuit.  For that reason, you might consider a different style.  There do exist thermal-type breakers in more or less this form-factor that have a small button or lever which serves to pop the reset button out and disconnect the circuit.

Now that I think about it, that's yet another reason these ought not be used on the AC side:  Code requires each circuit to have a "disconnecting means."  A conventional household or marine breaker serves this purpose at the same time it offers circuit protection -- disconnecting a circuit is as simple as moving the breaker handle.  With a breaker of the type shown, you would need a disconnect switch for each circuit downstream of the breaker, adding to the cost and complexity.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com



Tikvah,

You can get the disconnects (switches) and breakers by going to a closeout marine outfit.

I bought a complete dash with twenty switches and breakers for around $50.00.  Just look for one that is scratched up as you are going to strip it anyway.

The other nice thing is you maybe able to use the harness if you plan carefully.

Best of Luck,

Cliff
Logged

1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."
Mark Twain
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!