Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 22, 2014, 05:41:39 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This BB is intended for the sole purpose of sharing conversion and bus related information among visitors to our web site. These rules must be followed in order for us to continue this free exchange of info. No bad mouthing of any business or individual is permitted. Absolutely no items for sale are to be posted, except in the Spare Tire board. Interested in placing a classified or web ad, please contact our advertising dept. at 714-903-1784 or e-mail to: info@busconversions.com.

   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Will a metal fuel tank work for black/grey holding tank?  (Read 3044 times)
Midwilshire
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 159





Ignore
« on: December 06, 2012, 09:11:30 PM »

Looking for the board's collective wisdom on using a 100 gal. metal diesel tank as a combined black/grey holding tank.  What corrosion or other issues might arise? 

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/pts/3458013662.html

Logged

Michael & Gigi
1978 MCI-5C "Silverliner"
Full-timers in the DC area
Mex-Busnut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1135





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 09:33:39 PM »

Several both here and on the school bus conversion net (http://www.skoolie.net/) have done exactly this.

Let me just suggest you think of sensors for monitoring your tank levels. You can use some brass screws, 4 or five inches long into the tank. Under the head of the screw, (outside of the tank) insert your terminal for wiring. Of course, the screws and terminals must be insulated from the tank, so use a rubber grommet and silicone well. You need 5 screws. The bottom is ground, so it CAN be connected to the tank uninsulated. Then one insulated screw at 25%, one at 50%, 75% and 100%.

This system will work with the simplest monitor panel which you can salvage from a junk yard RV from the seventies or off Ebay. Or if you are handy with simple electronics, build this inexpensive circuit. (Just add some more resistance in series with your 12 or 24 volt source to reduce it to 6 volts.) This one shows 6 sensors. you only need 4.
http://www.circuitstoday.com/simple-water-level-idicator
Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6852





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 10:25:41 PM »

The reason this metal tank works with Diesel is the oil lubing effect from the Diesel coats the inside of the tank prevent rust from growing. Put water in and you'll have rust. Add in the VERY corrosive action of salty and ammonia urine, sulfur from solids mixing with water and the tank would quickly become a rusted mess. Just because others have done it doesn't mean it's right or correct. There's a real good reason waste tanks are made from non reacting plastics. Larger tanks on boats and ships are typically epoxy coated or just plainly fiberglass. A good plastic tank made for waste isn't much more then what they are asking for that metal tank. And the plastic tanks last a long time. I had a gray water tank last over 800,000mi of driving with it mounted on a piece of plywood that was on top of the fuel tank cross supports on my Kenworth just a few inches above the ground.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Ace
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1217





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 03:29:24 AM »

[quote water in and you'll have rust. Add in the VERY corrosive action of salty and ammonia urine, sulfur from solids mixing with water and the tank would quickly become a rusted mess. Just because others have done it doesn't mean it's right or correct.
[/quote]
Tom gotta say, thats funny!

How many people do you think REALLY roll down the road with tanks (any type) with waste?

With that said, how long is it gonna take to eat thru if the tanks are empty MOST of the time?

My suggestion is, go ahead, it WILL work with NO problems for many many MANY years, IF you remove any baffles from within the tank!
That goes for steel or aluminum!

If you plan on storing your crap and taking it with you on your highway adventure, you might be the type to travel with a deceased inlaw until you get back home... Just sayin




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
Prevost H3-40
PCC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 495


Serving Those Who Have Served


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 07:03:48 AM »

Do fuel tanks not have an access port hole? Or you can create one.

Then could you not spray inside, if that is a concern, with a coating (like a Rhino lining)?

I don't know (because I use a 150 gallon plastic bladder waste tank), but I thought if I say something, someone will either correct my thinking, or agree with the idea !!
Logged

For some, patience is a virtue.
Dealing with me, it is required.
Thank God - He is always patient.
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6852





Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2012, 08:41:05 AM »

As I said, just because people use improper materials for tanks doesn't mean it is right. Yes it probably will last a few years. But I can tell you, getting a hole in the black tank ain't fun. On my truck, my black tank was (like my gray tank) mounted on the lower fuel tank cross supports just a few inches above the ground on a U bolted plywood. I also had the exhaust pipe running right next, which wasn't a problem since I had a heat shield. But-I blew an exhaust clamp off and the raw un muffled exhaust started escaping. It sounded really cool so I didn't do anything about it for a while. That is until I was pulling a hill and the hot exhaust melted a couple of the plastic air lines bringing me down to a rude and rather sudden stop when the parking brakes on both tandems set. Also, the heat melted the black tank. When the tow truck took us to the truck repair, while the truck was up in the air with the tow truck, I removed the melted black tank, and that was like dealing with nuclear waste it stunk so bad. Got the plastic air lines repaired and went on down the road. I still used the toilet without the tank-just put a pale under when parked and emptied it into a toilet. Always some sort of fun when traveling. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4570

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 08:57:14 AM »

Ace, I have to disagree on this one.  Once the rust starts, all it needs is air and the nice humid atmosphere in the tank and it will keep on rusting.  Yes, it will certainly take some time to go all the way through, but you will not be ready for it when it does happen.  If one is really committed to using fuel tanks, maybe it would be possible to coat the inside.
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 09:58:49 AM »

oh sh1t, here we go again...

Check the archives, this has been argued with great vigor a number of years ago.

With no resolution and a lot of angry busnuts.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
Ace
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1217





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 11:09:34 AM »

" the heat from the exhaust melted the black tank"

Just imagine the mess you would have had if your tank was metal! Heaven forbid!

Lin do you honestly think that IF a metal tank were to leak even 10 years down the road that its going to blow out like a tire holding air?
Trust me and agree or not, it wont be a gusher! It may develop a very small drip at most and if not cared for soon than yes, it will grow into a larger hole but definitely NOT a gusher that will drown you with your own waste!

If you plan on using fuel tanks from a semi, cut the end off and simply remove the baffles, then do as you should and dump before hitting the road and if parked in a campground, hook up your sewer hose and leave it open!
You will NEVER have an issue!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
Prevost H3-40
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12753




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 11:21:55 AM »

Guys I have a 4106 here in the shop that 2 has round aluminum fuel tanks from a truck they have been installed since day one no I did not install the tanks but they look new and stuff is not running all over the floor lol  
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 12:06:59 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Red Rider
God put me here to accomplish certain things--- I'm so far behind I'll never die.
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 236





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2012, 11:43:38 AM »

Clifford, those tanks where installed in Nov of 1988.
Logged

Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
muldoonman
1991 Prevost 8V92TA
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 489





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 11:56:52 AM »

Built 2 out of stainless years ago for my Boss's Prevost and he  went to a Industrial Coating place and had um coated inside. They were still on coach he sold 30 years later.
Logged
Low Class
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 44




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 11:59:36 AM »

"How many people do you think REALLY roll down the road with tanks (any type) with waste?"

The only times I dump the tanks away from home is if they are full and there is no choice.  Rest of the time I prefer to dump at home where I use a hose that I keep hanging on a shed.  This way, I do not have to deal with storing the nasty, stinky hose in a compartment.  With properly vented tanks, I haven't had any problems doing it my way.

Also, about 1/3 of my camping is where there is no place to dump.
Logged

Jim Keefauver/1985 Wanderlodge PT36/6V92TA/MT654CR/East Tn.
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12753




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 12:34:13 PM »

Funny how Prevost will use plastic for the fuel tanks and metal for a holding tank on their seated coaches figure that one out lol
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5447




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 03:11:12 PM »

Built 2 out of stainless years ago for my Boss's Prevost and he  went to a Industrial Coating place and had um coated inside. They were still on coach he sold 30 years later.

Why would stainless need coating?  Will the waste still eat through stainless?  I'm thinking about a waste tank made of stainless and wasn't planning to coat the inside.

I have my waste tank full of waste for several days at a time.  We don't stay at campgrounds on the road and there is no reason to dump every time we get fuel.  We dump just before our destination and then boondock for four days.  Think about it, your tank is going to have waste on the bottom just about all the time the bus is in use unless you have sewer and run lots of water through.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4570

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2012, 04:21:49 PM »

I have no experience with the stainless tanks but was told that sewage will corrode them eventually. I have had a gas tank rust through.  I also once had a steel water tank rust through.  By the time is leaked in one place, it was paper thin lots of places.
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
chessie4905
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 727





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2012, 05:27:12 PM »

remember that septic tanks were made of steel, and also in ground fuel tanks. Sure, they will eventually leak, but with some sort of asphalt coating on the inside, it should last longer than he'll have the coach, especially at current fuel prices. If you are doing this on the cheap/ economical..go for it.
Logged

GMC h8h 649#028
Pennsylvania-central
Midwilshire
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 159





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2012, 05:37:31 PM »

Thanks for the replies everyone!   Smiley
Logged

Michael & Gigi
1978 MCI-5C "Silverliner"
Full-timers in the DC area
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3523





Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2012, 07:17:31 PM »

Well, yeah, guys do roll down the road with tanks 1/2 to full all the time?

Isn't that what they're for?
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Ace
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1217





Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2012, 12:54:44 PM »

Not really!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
Prevost H3-40
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5447




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2012, 03:20:10 PM »

Not really!

Different people buy buses for different uses.  Not all bus owners camp at places with full sewer service.  In Minnesota it seems a lot of campgrounds don't have sewer service probably in part because the season is short.  I suspect there are more RV parks in the south with sewer service because of year round operation and all the snowbirds.

A friend of mine has a travel trailer at a seasonal campground in northern Minnesota.  The campground offers no water, no sewer, and no electric.  My understanding is the place is mostly full so there are folks who don't mind using their tanks.  (I believe electricty was added in the last year or two.)
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Ace
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1217





Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2012, 07:39:45 PM »

Im not talking about camping at a full service campground!
What I'm saying is you dont or shouldnt STORE your crap in your tank!
Scenario: you go out in your bus for a weekend and you use your crapper. Your tank has waste. You go home But you shouldnt go home without dumping someplace! WHY would anyone STORE crap in their tank until their next outing?
Did I say NOT to travel with your crap in your tank? NO!  What I DID say was not to use your tank as a storage tank!
It doesn't have to become FULL before it has to be emptied!
If you ARE at a campground with full hookups, you can do one of two things. One hook up sewer hose and OPEN valve and let it drain as it's used OR hook up your sewer hose and keep the valve closed until your ready to leave and then dump!
Personally, i cant see why anyone would STORE their crap and use their tank to hold it for LONG periods!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
Prevost H3-40
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5447




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2012, 08:16:33 PM »

Of course nobody should be storing waste long term.  If you're the type that goes out every weekend or two I suspect a steel tank that isn't coated would develop issues after some period of time.  I expect an aluminum tank wouldn't be as bad.

When I was young a Boy Scout summer camp was using plain steel tread plate to make urinals.  The urinal at our site was so rusty that huge flakes of rust were coming off and plugging the drain.  The camp kept promising to replace it with a plastic urinal.  After a few days one of our leaders took the urinal down and beat it with a hammer to remove the major rust.  The camp finally replaced it a day or two before we went home.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 811




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2012, 10:43:06 PM »


If you ARE at a campground with full hookups, you can do one of two things. One hook up sewer hose and OPEN valve and let it drain as it's used OR hook up your sewer hose and keep the valve closed until your ready to leave and then dump!
If you do the former, isn't there a risk of the dreaded Mound Of Doom growing like some malevolent brown stalagmite in the poo tank?   Some folk prefer to not dump until the tank's at least half full, to ensure a vigorous and uninterupted flow of effluvium.   I do agree with the wisdom of not storing the caca for too long  -  it's probably not going to improve with age like a fine wine.

John 
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
sledhead
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 344





Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2012, 06:18:06 AM »

On our return trip home (huntsville ontario canada ) end of jan. from our visit to sister inlaw in florida we use the craper .When we ge back sometimes its -20 f . I back the bus in to the garage add about a 1/2 gal. of water and some poo treatment to sit in the tank (plastic ) untill I can dump in the spring 2 mounts later. If there is some water in the tank so the poo will break down from solid to a brown milkshake its fine untill I can dump it.Now I would not use a steel tank. I would use a old plastic barrel 20 gal if it is a money thing untill I could replace with a rv pllastic tank.         dave     
Logged

1990 mci 102c  6v92 ta ht740  kit,living room slide . home base huntsville ontario canada
Oonrahnjay
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1510





Ignore
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2012, 03:14:08 AM »

   Hmm, let's see.  I'm going "cheap", so I'm going to buy a tank, cut the end off to remove the baffles then weld it up again, and then coat it with Rhinoliner?  This is cheaper than a real, rustproof tank?  Maybe, I just don't see it.
Logged

Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
scanzel
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 514





Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2012, 03:50:47 AM »

You know what happens when you go cheap sometimes, it comes back to bite you in the butt latter when your out on the road and are now having major issues. Then it costs you more in the long run. Do it right the first time. I would not want to have leaking black or gray tank in my cargo area. A real mess to clean up.
Logged

Steve Canzellarini
Berlin, CT
1989 Prevost XL
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4759


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 04:20:03 AM »

If I'm using my bus, it has waste in the tank.  The only time it's empty is when I winterize it, or when I happen to stop at a campground with sewer hookups or a dump site I can get to easily.  Probably 90% of the time in the summer months, there is waste in it.  I have a 100 gallon plastic combined black/grey tank, so the black waste is well diluted with grey and dumps very easily.

Brian

Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!