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Author Topic: Penetrating oil  (Read 2165 times)
Rick 74 MC-8
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« on: December 10, 2012, 06:39:16 AM »

Penetrating Oils Machinist's Workshop recently published some information on various penetrating oils. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts. Below listed, a subjective test was made of all the popular penetrates, with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. Average torque load to loosen No Oil used ................... 516 pounds WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ...............127 pounds Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds ATF - Acetone mix............53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as Kroil for 20% of the price. ATF-Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner in a 50-50 mix. (ATF=Automatic Transmission Fluid)



 Sorry for the alignment I just copied and pasted an email That I received.

 I don't know if anyone else has tried this I plan to try it I'll let you know how it works


 Rick 74MC-8
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Rick59-4104
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 07:13:41 AM »

  Thanks, this is timely. I will be mixing up some of the acetone/ATF..... looks like for about 10 dollars you can have a half gallon mixed up.
  Today I am working on removing some rusted spark plugs from a 1947 KB International Flathead......I was told by an old timer machinist neighbor that bees wax applied with heat will also out preform most of the over the shelf spray penetrating oils.

Rick
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NW Arkansas
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buswarrior
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 07:51:52 AM »

Excellent report.

Many of these penetrating fluids are mighty pricey.

Be careful of the number of chemicals you keep around the shop and the opportunity for misadventure if they end up into a reaction when mixed or heated in unintended ways.

For instance, those with home taught welding skills can get into a heap of trouble with the wrong residues being present.

Home brewed chemistry class is another area of misadventure.

For fun and safety, spend some time reading about the chemicals you do have around.

Here's a couple of resources using Acetone to get us started:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=4&tid=1

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/acetone/health_ace.html

happy coaching!
buswarrior



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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 12:11:17 PM »

Acetone is deadly stuff both when breathed and on the skin.

It also evaporates like crazy so I would guess the mix won't last long.

I've tried them all and found them about the same. Kroil is a rip-off price wise.

I use PBB because it is cheapest and works as well as LW in my experience. I keep about six cans around my shop and on the bus.
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 01:49:34 PM »

During my brief farming career I had an old Ukrainian neighbour who swore that plain old water was the best penetrating oil.  According to him it worked just as well as whatever he bought in a can and when he put things back together wet it acted as a thread sealer.  It may have been something in the gene pool there because we had another neighbour who told the tire shop to just put 20# of air in his truck tire so he would still be able to lift it off the pickup when he got home. 


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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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luvrbus
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 02:06:14 PM »

LMAO Bob I haven't heard that one years true story my granddad had a couple of drinks and told it, the tire guy at the station told him I didn't know that
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Dave5Cs
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 02:44:37 PM »

Ok which is heavier.50#of 16d nails or 50# of 8 d nails?

Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 03:01:07 PM »

Or would you rather get hit with a a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?
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Jeremy
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 03:14:36 PM »

Acetone is deadly stuff both when breathed and on the skin.

I use acetone frequently as it is about the only solvent for fibreglass resin. It's not killed me yet but I thought I better click on the link provided to see if it really was 'deadly' - and it sounds like you'd have to be doing something fairly extreme for it to become so (and anything can become deadly if taken to extremes):

Swallowing very high levels of acetone can result in unconsciousness and damage to the skin in your mouth. Skin contact can result in irritation and damage to your skin.

The smell and respiratory irritation or burning eyes that occur from moderate levels are excellent warning signs that can help you avoid breathing damaging levels of acetone.

Health effects from long-term exposures are known mostly from animal studies. Kidney, liver, and nerve damage, increased birth defects, and lowered ability to reproduce (males only) occurred in animals exposed long-term

The Department of Health and Human Services, the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) have not classified acetone for carcinogenicity.

Acetone does not cause skin cancer in animals when applied to the skin. We don't know if breathing or swallowing acetone for long periods will cause cancer. Studies of workers exposed to it found no significant risk of death from cancer.



Jeremy

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John316
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 03:18:21 PM »

Or would you rather get hit with a a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?

I'll take the feathers in a nice big bag, please Grin. No matter how floofy that lead is, it will still feel like a big ol wad of shot.

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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 03:50:54 PM »

I've been a faithful uses of the Aero Kroil, when you have to remove studs on turbochargers without breaking them I soak them with Aero Kroil.  It gets the job done 70% of the time.   If I feel that the stud will sheer, I grab the Goodson wax product and heat things up and wax it..    The last 1% gets the Bridgeport...   I hate that last 1%..   It usually pays for a year supply of Kroil and Goodson wax...
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chessie4905
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 05:47:50 AM »

 A lot of dissatisfaction with many penetrating oils is not allowing enough time for the solution to penetrate the components. Sometimes working a nut a little while adding a couple squirts helps. How many flood the part, only to have most drip/run on to the ground?   I use PBB; it works as well/better than the majority of others.
  One old guy used WD-40 for spraying on his bad knee joints to help them-swore by it. Shocked Don't know myself, my knees are ok yet....
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 05:58:29 AM »

Using water as a thread sealer works really well,........which is why we end up using a penetrating oil or a torch to get the darn things loose later on! Grin
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 06:06:16 AM »

On nasty bolts I do not want to twist off paint remover and navel jelly has worked for me over the years,Kroil and heated wax is a tough combo to beat also fwiw
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 06:08:26 AM »

For years i have heard about using coke, (the drink, not the powder) to free things up. So one time i got a 4 banger engine that had been sitting outside for years in western Wa with the head off. Just for the heck of it i decided to see if i could free up the pistons with coke. A couple of time a day i would put a little coke on the top of the pistons, it took almost 2 weeks but finally it started to leak down past the rings and i was able to take a mallet and piece of wood and tap them out......i should have tried different penetrating oils on each piston to see which one was faster.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
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