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Author Topic: Duracell 8D versus Trojan T-105 for HOUSE batteries...  (Read 4116 times)
Mex-Busnut
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« on: December 18, 2012, 09:14:32 AM »

Dear Friends,

Hopefully I won't get a flame war started here.  Shocked

I am looking over my options for house batteries, taking into consideration the possibility of adding solar panels in the future.

One of my friends is a distributor for Duracell vehicular batteries. I can get 8D 12-volt Duracell truck batteries for 20% less each than the single T-105-type 6-volt golf cart batteries. And Duracell now up-graded its warranties to ten years!

My goal was to aim for six T-105 Trojan batteries. Now I am considering four 8D batteries. Am I crazy? (Of COURSE I am! Why else would I have a BUS?  Grin ) Would this be a good choice? Like Dumbo, I am all ears!

I have also heard comments by some of having a single battery bank: Vehicle and house batteries combined. Have you tried this?

Thanks in advance for your input!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 09:21:12 AM by Mex-Busnut » Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 09:38:11 AM »

There is a difference between traction batteries like your normal engine battery AND deep cycle batteries.   Don't confuse the marine battery with a deep cycle battery.   

If you are going for CHEAP focus on the Golf Cart replacement batteries.   Trojan, Interstate, WalMart, Sams Club and Costco.
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sommersed
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 09:59:09 AM »

I know, or have known, a couple of people that do what you propose, and are very happy with the outcome.

They say that if the depth of discharge isn't too much, and you have the time to hook up a charger to start the rig IF the depth of discharge was too much the night before, it works.

Truckers routinely do this, and some of the sleeper cabs have all the facilities that an RV does.


Ed
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GreyEagle
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 10:12:18 AM »

From my limited experience I'd take the Duracell's.....

1. a 10 year warranty,

2. 20% discount,

3. Duracell's history of batteries........
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 03:56:49 PM »

After much research I have decided to go with 8 6volt batteries (gulf cart ). When I built the rv in 2006 I installed 6 6 volt batteries they are still working at about 80-85% . All the research I have seen the 6 volt batteries have thicker plates for longer life and at $120. each x 8 is less then $1000  not bad for 6-8 years use .         dave
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 04:26:08 PM »

We have 8 x 6V Trojans as a combined house/engine bank on the boat.  When we bought the boat I thought that was a stupid arrangement but I have grown to think it is the only sensible way to go.  On the bus we have 3 x 8D AGMs for the house bank and 2 x 8D wet cells for the start bank.  I now think that is a really stupid setup.  We carry those 2 starting batteries all over North America and use them for a few seconds every few days.  We could just as easily have a house bank of 5 x 8D batteries - whether AGMs or some other deep cycle battery - and we would have almost double the discharge capacity for the house bank.  The starting load would easily be handled by that many 8Ds despite them being deep discharge batteries and our redundancy would come, as it does on the boat, from a separate battery to start the genset. 
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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TomC
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 04:34:45 PM »

I realize AGM batteries are much more expensive then wet-but once you've experienced AGM batteries, there's just no going back to wet. I had 2-8D Lifeline batteries that are about to be replaced. They had a 5yr warranty and it has been 7 years. Going with the same.
On my truck, will use the Lifeline L16 6v batteries that are 400amp/hours. I'll use 4 to have 800amp hours at 12vdc. You'd need 3-4 8D's for the same power. The nice thing about the L16's is they weigh 110lbs compared 160lbs for the 8D's.  But-they are taller. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 04:50:17 PM »

Bob, I think there is a lot to be said for your logic of using one larger bank.  Of course, for those with mixed voltage systems it would be a little more complicated to retrofit.
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 05:41:32 AM »

Tomc      What price are your lifeline L16-6volt and how long is the warranty (not that warranties ever mean much )          thanks    dave
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1990 mci 102c  6v92 ta ht740  kit,living room slide . home base huntsville ontario canada
TomC
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 06:33:18 AM »

I believe the L16's were around the $500 mark each. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 09:10:26 AM »

Hi Mex-Busnut,

We just recently replaced the 8 each 8D house battery bank in our Eagle at a cost of approximately $3500.  We also have 2 each 8D wet cell batteries for starting and the bus' 12v lighting system. 

There is a HUGE difference in the care and feeding of the two different banks.  The start bank requires regular cleaning and topping off while the house bank is pretty much totally self sufficient.  As Tom says, if you haven't experienced the freedom of using the AGM battery, then... 

It is my opinion that over the long haul, the AGM outshines its wetcell counterpart in every department - including cost. 

Also, I agree that having two seperate battery banks is 'penny wise and pound foolish'.  The house side should never be discharged past 50% in any case, which leaves a more than sufficient amount of cranking amps to fire the engine. 

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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 01:37:16 PM »

With a proper three stage regulator will AGM batteries charge fine from an alternator?  I wanted to move my house batteries down to where my starting batteries and just have one bank, but the area is 3" too small to hold the house batteries.  It would be fairly difficult to expand the battery compartment as it would require a lot of fabrication.
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 06:04:07 PM »

I can't figure out how to change the battery profile tonight but the instructions that came with my Balmar 614 regulator claim that the profile is user configurable so I'd say the answer is "yes but I don't know how to do it".
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 10:53:16 AM »

I can't figure out how to change the battery profile tonight but the instructions that came with my Balmar 614 regulator claim that the profile is user configurable so I'd say the answer is "yes but I don't know how to do it".


Page 9 of the Manual

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TomC
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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2012, 07:17:44 AM »

The only real adjustment an AGM starting battery needs is to set the regulator to no higher then 14.1 volts. AGM's can take just about as much charging amps as you can throw at them as long as they are not over volted. Good luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 11:32:15 AM »

Hello,    Just watered the t105s this am.  We have 12 T 105s in series parallel.   24 volt system.  3banks of 4 for 675 amps of power feeding a trace 2500 inverter U2624.  The system has been in service 10 years.   I lost one cell last year so I replaced the battery.  I usually don't let the voltage go below 25. Before charging.   
     The systEm requires attention for watering.  If you can't afford to check the batteries weekly when using and monthly when idle, go with a different type battery.
    I forgot twice in 10 years and uncovered a plate so take heed and be prepared for the maintenance chores.    We don't run the Ac units from our system but do run the toaster oven and microwave and lights.. This system has been good to us .
     Regards and happy bussin,   Mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 01:54:51 AM »

Hi Mex-Busnut,

We just recently replaced the 8 each 8D house battery bank in our Eagle at a cost of approximately $3500.  We also have 2 each 8D wet cell batteries for starting and the bus' 12v lighting system. 

There is a HUGE difference in the care and feeding of the two different banks.  The start bank requires regular cleaning and topping off while the house bank is pretty much totally self sufficient.  As Tom says, if you haven't experienced the freedom of using the AGM battery, then... 

It is my opinion that over the long haul, the AGM outshines its wetcell counterpart in every department - including cost. 

Also, I agree that having two seperate battery banks is 'penny wise and pound foolish'.  The house side should never be discharged past 50% in any case, which leaves a more than sufficient amount of cranking amps to fire the engine. 


I'm also considering building a house battery system (24v) and combining with vehicle start system (also 24v). Garhawk- You suggest a huge difference in "feeding of the banks". Would changes need to be made to the vehicle charging system?
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buswarrior
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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 06:36:27 AM »

Re: changes to the vehicle charging system...

AGM type need the regulator settings changed somewhat from lead acid type.

Failure to match charging voltages correctly to battery type will shortly destroy the investment in good batteries.

If an investment in AGM is going to be made, buying a modern multi-stage regulator for your vehicle alternator to support them makes a lot of economic sense, and is a relatively small amount in comparison with the battery purchase.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 07:00:34 AM »

While I'm sure what Ewen just said is true in theory and I would never want anyone to destroy a set of batteries based on what I said, here is one data point:  Shortly after we bought the frenchy-bus we went to Rickreall and I bought a set of 3 x 8D AGMs from Dick Wright.  Those batteries are still in the bus and still going strong.  That was the 1st year for Rickreall - I can't remember exactly when it was but its going on 10 years now.  They are tied directly to the bus alternator whenever the engine is running.  So at least in this one instance, a standard automotive charge profile hasn't done any damage to a set of AGMs.

Moving on though, I have noticed in the marine world that external regulators on the engine alternators are much more common.  I have a Balmar 614 which is a three-stage regulator to drive my twin alternators when we are underway.  I don't know if its any "better" but at least in theory it pulls higher amps out of the alternators than a conventional internal regulator would deliver and it didn't cost much.  It is also able to be configured for different battery types although as I have already confessed, I haven't done that.  In my defence I think it may default to flooded batteries which is what I have on the boat and may explain why I don't know how to configure it for anything else.
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2012, 10:45:27 AM »

I put Trojan Group 31 AGM batteries in for starting batteries two years ago.  I did not adjust the alternator regulator.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2012, 11:17:34 AM »

Lots of good stuff found here, courtesy of Trojan:

http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/TechSupport.aspx

From the chart under "charging", the charge voltage called for VRLA/AGM batteries, is slightly lower than flooded lead acid, (13.8-14.4 vs 14.Cool and the float voltage is slightly higher (13.5 vs 13.2).

From the experience shared, it sounds like, in leaving things alone, the combination works.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2012, 01:02:51 PM »

Ever since I started using smart chargers I've doubted that mass produced chargers can really charge and maintain batts to tenths of volts, especially ganged ones?
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2012, 12:08:25 PM »

Dr. Steve

Our 73 MCI has four 12v AGM batteries as the house DC supply. These are charged by a standard 12v alternator on the motor.  They look to be at least 5-6 years old with no problems.
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Bruce & Nancy Fagley
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