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Author Topic: Mark Renners Silverside PD3751-438  (Read 2368 times)
Dreamscape
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1968 Silver Eagle Model 01 8V71 Allison 740 #7443


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« on: December 21, 2012, 03:44:59 AM »

I posted some pics in the Bus Project section. I'll let Mark fill in the details.

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=24881.0

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Becky and Paul Lawry, On The Road
Travel Blog - http://dreamscapetravels.wordpress.com/
Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
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Our coach was originally owned by the Dixie Echoes.
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 09:49:19 AM »

WOW!
Brings back a lot of memories. Grin
I can recall when Florida Greyhound Lines got their PD-3751 Silversides new from GMC Coach.
My dad would have one on his daily round trips to Key West,FL from Miami,FL.
Thanks Paul.
RRT

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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 11:23:31 AM »

Especially the drivers wrestling with the column shifter.
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 01:28:47 PM »

Mark left that column shift neat bus he has there been a labor of love for him and it shows
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 02:39:54 PM »

And now for some historical triva about Mark's Silverside:

PD3751-438 was delivered new in September of 1947 to Pacific Greyhound Lines, HQ'd in San Francisco.  The correct fleet number is on the coach: K-554.  Since it was HQ'd in SF, it spent it's career pounding the pavement up and down the West Coast, thus giving Mark a great foundation to build this gorgeous retro restoration and motor home.

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 06:15:05 PM »

Thank's RJ.  I continue to look for an original period photo of this coach and have yet to find one; so everybody keep on the lookout.  I have found K555 and K551 and several others close to it and hope to find mine somewhere someday.  There are a lot of vintage GHL photos posted on Flickr, maybe this one will show up someday.  I have the original factory delivery records, there were several shipped from Pontiac on the same day including this one.  Funny, but there was a typo on the record and 553 was listed twice and 554 omitted, but the serial number 438 was in sequence.  Administration girl must have hit the wrong key on the typewriter, lol.  I also have the original GM paint spec sheet for the Silverside and painted the drip rail stripe on per that spec sheet.  Most divisions left it off during repaints or repairs and you rarely see a Silverside with that stripe on it but it is correct as applied at the factory.  Paint is correct too!
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 06:34:08 PM »

Further to RJ's comment about PGL; they ran as far north as Portland; east over 50 to Salt Lake; and as far east as El Paso.  So I guess you could say most of the division's miles were on good weather routes.  There is little to no tire chain damage although the rear hoops have been touched lightly by them in one place.  Both rear wheel hoops are being replaced with NOS ones that I aquired anyway.  This car never had the rear bulkhead repair either; the repair included big ugly plates over the rear wheel wells.  The body was straight with no holes of any kind cut into the roof or sides, which back yard converters are notorious for.  Finally, it broke down and sat stationary in the AZ desert for nearly 30 years which helped to preserve it.  All in all, I felt it was about the best candidate for a restoration of all the Silversides that I have seen.
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
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pd4501-771
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 06:54:56 PM »

Mark

I'll keep an eye out for old photos of 438. I looked for 15 years before I found a period photo of my Scenicruiser. (PD4501-771) 8149 Then when I least expected it, (while receiving nearly 1500 photos from various people for use in our Scenicruiser book) I found not only one, but two different revenue service photos of my bus. Funny I had so many photos, it took me a while to realize that these were my bus! One was taken by my co-author Fred Rayman in Iowa back in 1964 (bus was painted in the gold stripe livery at the time.) The other was the red-stripe livery (4th of 5 total paint schemes the 4501 received) shot in San Francisco in 1977. Just before the end when the last of the Scenics were being put out to pasture. I was also given a shot of my PD4501-1001 Scenic taken by Loring Lawrence while that bus was in the same red stripe livery in 1970. So I have two different (in revenue service) photos of 1001 too, as I have (like most 4501 fans have) the factory photos of it that were taken at GM showing the emergency exit door. 
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PD4501-771
PD4501-1001
PD4104-3462
PD3751-686

If you know of the whereabouts of a PD4501 Scenicruiser - I would like to add the serial number to my registry of surviving Scenics.  www.tomsgarageonline.com
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 07:22:11 PM »

Yep, that's a great story Tom.  That is the fun part of owning one of these things, tracking down the history.  Interesting photos turn up on ebay from time to time also.
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
Vancouver, WA USA
RJ
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 11:22:48 AM »

Mark -

Here's a pic of Greyhound's restored 1947 PD4151-014.  Don't know which is correct, but note the font on the fleet number is slightly different than the font used on yours.  Other PGL pics show a similar font to 1947's.

Also, if you look between the wheels, along the rub rail where you put the crank to open the baggage bins, Greyhound painted two blue stripes.

And look at the front bumper - the 4151 has cutouts in the bumper for fog lights.  JLV (roadrunnertex) thinks it was an "engineering change" by the San Francisco shop due to local conditions, but then again, others from the PGL fleet don't have them, so who knows. . .

Silly trivia to contemplate on a rainy Saturday morning. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 04:36:16 PM »

Mark,found another 3751 in Phoenix today it's all in one piece with the seats not in bad shape except where some one chopped a hole in the top for a AC unit

good luck
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2012, 09:38:11 PM »

Clifford keep that one under your hat for when I get down there.
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 09:59:05 PM »

RJ, I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of the one in GHL historic fleet.  I am contemplating the blue stripes which I believe were reflective and may have been added at a later date.  Could never figure out those bumper holes unless they were a step as they already had fog lamps.  The font on the unit number I decided was no big deal.  There were countless fonts applied around the country as various sign painters were used after repaints, repairs, etc. They were painted in slightly different locations too.  There are other subtle non authentic exterior departures on mine too due to some upgrades but I tried to make them as unobtrusive as possible.  I even thought about restored 1947 Calif. BE commercial plates that I found but the guy wanted 350.00 for them so I settled for 1947 WA plates.  The target sign, too, originally was white and at some point the states or feds made them change to red sign halves.  Thanks for being so observant.
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'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
Vancouver, WA USA
Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2012, 06:02:27 AM »

Haven't seen the picture you guys are talking about, but depending on where they are, maybe the holes in the bumper are steps so the driver has an easier time washing the windsheild?
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
pd4501-771
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 11:13:51 AM »

Mark,

I have not studied Greyhound's Silversides restored and keep in their historic fleet completely (yet). However based on my up-close inspections of the entire historic fleet last May in L.A., their Scenicruiser has several incorrect detail issues. I, in no way want to diminish their existence or the efforts that Fred Dunikoski, and Greyhound put forth on these wonderful historic vehicles, but they cannot be used as absolute 100% correct original reference guides. I think it is a miracle that Fred had the amazing idea to preserve these buses. I spent several years in the muscle car hobby and got rather tired of the competitive spirit within the national show scene. People would get ulcers worrying that their seat belts have the incorrect build date code on them. Bus guys tend to not take it that serious. (which I enjoy) I still have two GTOs, but do not attend any national car shows anymore. No disrespect intended RJ, just my 2 cents ! Merry Christmas.
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PD4501-771
PD4501-1001
PD4104-3462
PD3751-686

If you know of the whereabouts of a PD4501 Scenicruiser - I would like to add the serial number to my registry of surviving Scenics.  www.tomsgarageonline.com
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 11:27:07 AM »

These buses arrived different from the factory, the local body shop made "adjustments" once it was hit, the name of the game was get it cobbled together and back on the road to make money.

Nobody returned a coach to GM for the paint line being one rivet hole higher or lower than...

Thank goodness there's no "numbers matching" B.S. in the bus conversion hobby.

That being said, it is lovely, and commendable, that great care is and has been taken to faithfully represent "the broad middle of the road" in the presentation of the paint and decals to create a fine example of what once was!

And with the GLI historic fleet, even more commendable, cuz a coach is just a tool to use up, discard and replace in the pursuit of a business enterprise, and improved shareholder value.

Only a nut would see the coach any differently...

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 12:58:47 PM »

Haven't seen the picture you guys are talking about, but depending on where they are, maybe the holes in the bumper are steps so the driver has an easier time washing the windsheild?

Ed -

Reviewing my post, I realized I didn't include the pic of the GL Silversides.  Here's a link to the pic:

http://www.norcalbusfans.fotki.com/greyhound/greyhound-mainline-1/gmc-pd3751pd4151/gl1947.html

If you go back to the 3751 page, there are a bunch of Silversides, all with various front bumper "stuff."  JLV (RoadrunnerTex) & I talked about some of the "stuff" being steps to clean the windshields, some being holes for additional fog lights, etc.  But note that some w/ bumper holes no longer have the OEM fog lights. . .

http://www.norcalbusfans.fotki.com/greyhound/greyhound-mainline-1/gmc-pd3751pd4151/#media

As Buswarrior says, each shop does it's own thing to keep the fleet moving. . .


Mark -

In my conversation with JLV yesterday, he said that Fred Rayman seems to remember that yes, those stripes were reflective 3M ScotchCal, and that some ScotchCal was also applied to the rear engine hatch around the center target stop lamp. . .


Tom -

Yup, I know all about the "crazies adhering to OEM" crowd from marque auto clubs, especially at concours events.  Sometimes I wanted to wring their necks with a broken Corvair fan belt due to their occasional lack of common sense. . .

That's probably what makes this hobby so much fun - it's really a "Do It Your Way" mentality, as Fast Fred so often says.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

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RJ Long
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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 01:44:06 PM »

I have my doubts that any coach GM ever delivered was nearly as shiny as Mark's coach on delivery day.  I really like the looks of Mark's bus, but I think if he is trying to make it look OEM it is probably too shiny.  

I'm not going for any sort of OEM look with my bus.  Nobody would care about the original colors for some out of business charter company on a 1995 bus.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 05:15:25 PM »

Wasn't no Mike Wilson to paint the GreyHounds back then lol
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