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Author Topic: Chazwood, et all...Disk brakes?  (Read 2106 times)
John316
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MCI 1995 DL3, DD S60, Allison B500.




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« on: January 08, 2013, 07:01:25 PM »

I read over on the mcibustalk board, that Chaz said he replaced/changed his brakes out to disk.

Did you swap them from drum brakes? Tell me more. That has been a dream of mine to switch our bus to disks.

Thanks,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
TomC
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 06:21:35 AM »

From the factory on trucks it is about a $1,500 option. I looked into it, and it was VERY expensive-in the thousands to do. If you have the correct linings, balanced drums, automatic slack adjusters, Jake brake, you'll have more then enough brakes. The difference between stopping distances (on a truck) between drum and disc from 60mph is 20ft (course that's the length of a car too). If I were buying a new bus or truck, it would have discs. But retrofitting- $$$$ Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
belfert
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 07:33:16 AM »

I read over on the mcibustalk board, that Chaz said he replaced/changed his brakes out to disk.

Did you swap them from drum brakes? Tell me more. That has been a dream of mine to switch our bus to disks.

Check with MCI for their disk brake conversion kit for the D series.  It isn't clear if it works with the 102D series or just the newer D4000/D4500 series.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
chazwood
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 05:16:26 PM »

Mine were on the bus when I bought it. I have replaced all the pads and done some other things. They stop very smooth and seem trouble free
All wheels have disk except for the drive wheels. They are still drum.
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1983 Eagle Bus Model 10
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John316
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 03:52:49 AM »

Thanks for the replys, folks. I will keep investigating, but I have a feeling that TomC will be right in the end. We will probably have a new bus with disc brakes before this bus has disk brakes.

Chaz, you are very blessed to have a bus with disk brakes. That is huge!

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
chazwood
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 09:18:56 AM »

They are Rockwell's. I discovered that a lot of older emergency vehicles (I.e. Fire ambulance, military) are converted over to after-market disk systems.
It seems rather straight forward to me. Everything is bolt-on. This system is much easier to service than my passenger van. I had a leaking rear seal on my driver tag yesterday. I had to pull everything all the way back to the main seal. It only took a few hours and I was just piddling. (If you can call lugging around the 100lb disk hub, to get it in the parts cleaner, piddling (Smiley the calipers weigh at least 75lbs but they just fall into place with two large king pins. One feisty guy can manage. Wish I knew one.
All in all, the system might be pricey, I didn't look into that, but it couldn't be more simple.
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1983 Eagle Bus Model 10
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Thekempters.com
chazwood
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 09:25:55 AM »

I would agree with Tom on the fact that a disk system and a drum system are very close in stopping power. I have a 82 MCI with drum. However, that is where the similarities end. The smoothness and ease of stopping are not to be compared. The ease of service is also heavily favoring the disk system. This thing stops like a car.
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1983 Eagle Bus Model 10
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Thekempters.com
belfert
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 10:24:24 AM »

Does anyone know if it is possible to retrofit air disk brakes to a bus with Rockwell Q+ air drum brakes?  Highly unlikely I would do it, but it would interesting to know if possible.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
TomC
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 10:27:24 PM »

Anything is possible with enough money. As the old saying goes-it costs money to go fast-how fast do you want to go?
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
wg4t50
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 03:36:27 AM »

Very interesting read, my Foretravel has the Meritor  disc setup, yes they stop well, they require clay based grease (ONLY) due to heat about every 2 years, can be screwed up very easy, the larger problem is the sticky slide pins, and folks who drive it like a sports car.  Some folks with a RV scare me.  Can get very costly, burn up rotors, pads and even the calipers. You know the routine about the anvil being destroyed with a feather.
 The Meritor system is the same as the fire trucks use. There are different models, I do not know the differences between them.
Also Foretravel coaches uses the Allison Retarder, it is about 3-4 times more effective than a Jake on a 71 or 92 DDC. It just heats up the radiator going down a long mtn too fast.  Common sense is still required.
Between the retarder and the disc setup, yes it  does stop like a car.
Me, being from the trucking world could be just as happy with the drums and retarder.
Cheers
Dave M
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:10:46 AM by wg4t50 » Logged

MCI7 20+ Yrs
Foretravel w/ISM500
WG4T CW for over 50 wpm for ever.
Central Virginia
buswarrior
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 07:19:30 AM »

wg4t50 brings up the maintenance point...

Discs need REGULAR maintenance to the caliper slider pins.

Disassemble, clean, re-grease, fresh rubber boots as needed, re-assemble.

I'd be leaning towards an annual wheels off greasing party.

Busnuts are notorious for leaving the wheels on too long for disc brakes to stay unseized...

If they inherited them from the previous owner in any decent shape to begin with.

Like everything, no free lunch with more power!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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chazwood
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 07:49:36 AM »

My slider pins are just sitting exposed in the assembly...., no boots, no grease fittings, no way to oil except rubbing them before you slide them in.
Sliding back and forth when you brake cleans them off, I guess.
Every time I pull them out they are mirror clean and shiny.
Don't know if others are a similar design.
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1983 Eagle Bus Model 10
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Thekempters.com
wg4t50
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 12:08:05 PM »

The pins should be free of grease, it tends to have grit etc stuck to it, some use a dry silicone spray.
Meritor has a spring kit to help push the pads apart/away from  rotor, I do not have it yet.
The cost side of the disc brake seems to run from acceptical to real costly, seems to depend on the operator, take a gear head who pays attention to important things, they are in the econ mode. but if your life was sitting at a desk, and head up the butt, things get costly. Like most things I guess.
One key seems to be the Clay Based grease, due the the heat, it is used in the screw assy that puts the squeeze on the pads/rotor, it appearently gets hot, above my pay grade, I do not know.
Will try to send the Meritor Service Manual for info.
Dave M
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MCI7 20+ Yrs
Foretravel w/ISM500
WG4T CW for over 50 wpm for ever.
Central Virginia
wg4t50
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 12:14:03 PM »

Opps !
Manual is too large for upload here, go to www.meritor.com and snoop around if interested.

Here is a Meritor manual for MCI Coach's

www.mcicoach.com/service.../brakeDisc092111/brakeDisc092111.p...

Dave M
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 12:20:51 PM by wg4t50 » Logged

MCI7 20+ Yrs
Foretravel w/ISM500
WG4T CW for over 50 wpm for ever.
Central Virginia
TomC
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 12:19:04 PM »

With all the cost and maintenance issues still with disc brakes, unless a customer wants them, we order all of our trucks with drum brakes. If you have the correct linings, and such, drum brakes will give you many years of faithful service. Except for greasing the pins and slack adjusters, adjusting my brakes once a year, I haven't done anything to my brakes-and they will put you through the windshield (my wife won't want you to know how I know that).  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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