Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 22, 2014, 10:16:01 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If your computer is lost, damaged, or stolen, your Online mags will be safe.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: FAQ's About Charging your Batteries in 3 Stages  (Read 3688 times)
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4874


Nick & Michelle Badame


WWW
« on: April 21, 2006, 09:24:27 AM »

Good info about charging your batteries properly!

What is Three-Stage Charging?

Multistage charging ensures batteries receive optimum charging, but with minimal wear and tear, regulating the voltage and current delivered to the batteries in three stages:

Bulk: Replaces 70-80% of the battery’s state of charge at the fastest possible rate.
~ Absorption: Replenishes the remaining 20-30% of charge, bringing the battery to a full charge at a slow, safe rate.
~ Float: Voltage is reduced and held constant in order to prevent damage and keep batteries at a full charge.

Always check your battery fluid levels regulary.
Also be sure to check for consistant cell levels with a volt meter or hydrometer, one bad cell will effect your entire battery banks state of charge!

Just Good Info-
Nick-

Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Frank @ TX
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 221




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2006, 09:49:48 AM »

Hi Nick,
I have a Trace 2425.
I'm not sure that what I see it do is normal or not, but here it is:
At least once a day while pulged into a campground the Trace goes into bulk.
Trace said the the unit will go into bulk if there is any interuption in the incoming power source.
BUT I have a digital clock and a microwave that I have would pop into "reset" display if they miss power for just a cycle.
The water level is OK and everything else seems OK also.
BUT the poping into bulk makes me thing the batteries could be getting an overcharge.

What do you think.
Frank
Logged
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4874


Nick & Michelle Badame


WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2006, 09:57:20 AM »

Frank,
I would advise you to do the hydrometer test on all batt cells. you are looking for consistency more so than the level or state of charge.
How old are the batteries?
Did you purchace them all from the same production lot?
Are they all the same size/brand?
Let me know-
Nick-


Hi Nick,
I have a Trace 2425.
I'm not sure that what I see it do is normal or not, but here it is:
At least once a day while pulged into a campground the Trace goes into bulk.
Trace said the the unit will go into bulk if there is any interuption in the incoming power source.
BUT I have a digital clock and a microwave that I have would pop into "reset" display if they miss power for just a cycle.
The water level is OK and everything else seems OK also.
BUT the poping into bulk makes me thing the batteries could be getting an overcharge.

What do you think.
Frank
Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Frank @ TX
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 221




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2006, 10:33:24 AM »

Hi Nick,
The batteries check out OK.
They are new in 2001 and all exactly the same,  golf cart 6 volt, series / parrallel wired for 24 volts and the Vanner makes the 12 v where needed.  They take about 1/4 cup of distilled water each cell about every other month ( my checking schedule ).
Other that seeing the Trace go into bulk , making me wonder about the batteries , the bats themselves give me no problem.
Thanks for replying.
Frank
Logged
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2006, 10:40:18 AM »

Frank,
I would kind of wonder if you have a small load drawing from the batteries at all times.
I have an electric step that will draw a constant amount if I don't make sure the switch is off.
I also have a step light that when turned on will make the charger come on at about 2 amps and stay on for about 10 minutes after I turn the light off.
Dallas
Logged
Frank @ TX
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 221




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2006, 11:07:19 AM »

I guess I figured that the float cycle would support any small draws like a light.
I thought when it went from float to bulk I would have seen the voltage drop a bit.
The odd thing is I have solar panels on the roof, and the Trace goes into bulk even when the panels are in full sun.
Maybe the Trace has internal timer to kick it to bulk even when power isn't being used.
There is no real problem other than I wonder why it does that bulk thing.
Frank
Logged
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4447


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2006, 11:34:17 AM »

Frank,
   When this occurs, how long does the inverter/charger stay in buk mode?  Jack
Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
FAST FRED
Guest

« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2006, 01:44:24 PM »

~" Absorption: Replenishes the remaining 20-30% of charge, bringing the battery to a full charge at a slow, safe rate"

Sorry but this is not accurate.
The absorebtion chargemay bring the batts up to about 90 to 95 % full but the FLOAT voltage actually "finishes" the recharge process.

Thats why SOLAR does such a fine job, time is almost unlimited.

With a smaller genset it takes a long time just to get to absorbtion , as the charge rate is reduced by the poor AC wave form.
 A belt driven alternator will do the best recharge in limited time.
And really do a fine "fast as you dare" recharge with a 3 or 4 stage V regulator.

Even the "best " inverter charger is limited to about 100A (with a 15KW+ genset) ,2X that is  not a problem for a Leece Neville or similar alt. that works at vastly more amps (if you can affort it).

FAST FRED
Logged
DrDave
Guest

« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 02:52:18 PM »

I have noticed the "strobe" effect with my inverter. It occasionally goes to bulk charge momentarily and as I understand the way that it works is that it is taking a "peek" at the battery state, checking for fall-off rates after strobing the voltage up.

Apparently has something to do with the computer chip doing normal system checks and looking for faults in the charge controller and battery bank.

Some people call it "searching" by toggling between float and charge mode until it's happy with itself.

This is probably more prevalent in systems that have small secondary loads, even digital dash clocks, LP gas detectors, radios or stereos that have very minimal loads. I have those types of loads that amount to about 1 to 2 amps.

My exhaust fans are on temperature controls and cycle on and off during the warmer days and my light controllers still pull a little power even when switched off. I probably will solve that problem when I get the solar panels installed as they should be able to offset the losses when the sun is available.

Logged
gumpy
Some Assembly Required
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3264


Slightly modified 1982 MC9


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 05:05:32 PM »

I think the condition of floating once a day is a setting in the menu on the trace. Check your menu.

If I get time, I'll find my manual and see if I can find the setting.

Logged

Craig Shepard
Located in Minnesquito

http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4874


Nick & Michelle Badame


WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 05:08:31 PM »

FAST FRED,

My RS3000 sine wave inverter has 180 amp 3 stage charging, Mabe yours is the old style trace with 100 amp 3 stage charge!
And for your statement that I'm not accurate. your quote: [Sorry but this is not accurate.]
I am mearly reciting information from Xantrax FAQ sheet on the new RS model inverters about their new technolegy
Mabe you should read it, here is the web site: www.xantrax.com goto FAQs
Nick-

Sorry, spl cker knot wrking  - http://www.xantrex.com/support/readfaq.asp?did=266&p=588

Also-  http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/1040/info.asp

And here is my inverter-  http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/176/p/1/pt/7/product.asp


~" Absorption: Replenishes the remaining 20-30% of charge, bringing the battery to a full charge at a slow, safe rate"

Sorry but this is not accurate.
The absorebtion chargemay bring the batts up to about 90 to 95 % full but the FLOAT voltage actually "finishes" the recharge process.

Thats why SOLAR does such a fine job, time is almost unlimited.

With a smaller genset it takes a long time just to get to absorbtion , as the charge rate is reduced by the poor AC wave form.
 A belt driven alternator will do the best recharge in limited time.
And really do a fine "fast as you dare" recharge with a 3 or 4 stage V regulator.

Even the "best " inverter charger is limited to about 100A (with a 15KW+ genset) ,2X that is not a problem for a Leece Neville or similar alt. that works at vastly more amps (if you can affort it).

FAST FRED
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 06:35:55 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
FAST FRED
Guest

« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2006, 02:51:37 AM »

Impressive specs for an RV unit, but with a small noisemaker have you ever see it charge at 180A?

The tech is getting better and better for chargers ,

 unfortunatly batterys havent changed much in 110 years.

So monitoring and adjusting the charge by battery temperature is still wisest as is cycling the set between 70 and 90% + , rather than going to 30% and perhaps back up.

FAST FRED
Logged
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4874


Nick & Michelle Badame


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2006, 05:20:13 AM »

Fast Fred,

The highest I have seen my charging amps on my 12.5 onan is 150a. I belive their Rs 2000 is rated at 120a But, the 2000 is for
30a powered RVs. The Power Factor Corrected technology is their claim to fame for increaced charging abillity.
Here is the RS 2000: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/40/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

Nick-


Impressive specs for an RV unit, but with a small noisemaker have you ever see it charge at 180A?

The tech is getting better and better for chargers ,

 unfortunatly batterys havent changed much in 110 years.

So monitoring and adjusting the charge by battery temperature is still wisest as is cycling the set between 70 and 90% + , rather than going to 30% and perhaps back up.

FAST FRED
Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Frank @ TX
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 221




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2006, 06:45:44 AM »

Frank,
   When this occurs, how long does the inverter/charger stay in buk mode?  Jack

Jack,
I have the absortion time setting adjusted to 1 hour.  And yes , it seems to stay in bulk for the whole hour.
Frank
Logged
boogiethecat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 634



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 07:41:42 AM »

If you guys want some very informative reading on batterys, check out this webpage

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden//

The guy has pages and pages of extremely useful info on everything you'd ever want to know about your battery and how to care for it and feed it.

Quite an amazing compilation of real information...  but be ready for a lot of reading.  19 full webpages of FAQ's for starters!!!
This guy really knows his stuff...
Logged

1962 Crown
San Diego, Ca
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!