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Author Topic: Drive wheel permanent stud torque spec.  (Read 2442 times)
Gary LaBombard
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« on: January 20, 2013, 01:13:06 PM »

Hey guys,
I am a little concerned about something that does not make complete sense to me but here goes. When I assemble my (11R22.5)inner dullie tire to my Eagle what do I torque the outer nut to?? The stud I am concerned about is the one permanetly mounted to the wheel assembly, which is 3/4-16 thd. My Eagle (Model 10 Book) that Eric gave me says to torque (DRIVE AXLE INNER NUTS TO 450- FT. LBS)HuhHuh This just does not seem right to me but I want more info than just the Eagle book which could be wrong or maybe I am.  I know the outer nut that holds the outside dullie on is torqued to 450 ft.lbs. as this nut goes on a 1 1/8-16 outer stud and that makes sense.

I am using a torque wrench and the nuts and studs are dry as well, but I wanted to check with others as to this spec.  I am no engineer by any means but have assembled for many years and this spec. figure is just out of the normal box to what I have ever done.  Your opinions will be appreciated.

I am not positive if the permanent mounted inner studs are grade (#5 or #8). Maybe someone knows this as well, please post if you do. One site with the torque chart states:
3/4-16 Grade 5 = 297(402) Grade 8 =420 (569)??
I have no idea why there is two figures on this one unless the second number posted is newton meters!!!
http://encoreequipment.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Torque-Specifications.pdf
[/url]Another site says:
Grade 5 = 270 ft. lb. Grade 8 = 380 ft. lb. ??http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/bolts/SAE_bolts.html
one more source states:
Grade 5 = 315 ft.lb grade 8 = 370 ft.lb??
http://www.auto-ware.com/techref/bolttorque.htm
This is for NON lubrucated bolts and nuts also.
Thanks ahead of time
Gary

« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 01:28:29 PM by Gary LaBombard » Logged

Gary
hargreaves
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 04:36:37 PM »

the nut/stud that holds the inner wheel on is torqued to 450 ft lbs.  the nut that holds the outer wheel on is torqued to 450 lbs.  no lubricant.  Cheers Gerry
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 05:38:46 PM »

clean off the outer end of studs. They should have 6 slash marks=grade 8.
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 07:30:01 PM »

Gary,
The wheek studs are not grade 8, they are made of much stronger stuff than that with a tensile strength approaching 200,000 psi.

For what it is worth,
The manual for my bus (same stud piloted studs & nuts) calls for:
-350 to 400 ft lbs for the front wheels & rear outer.
-300 to 325 for the rear inner.
As for me, due to better quality steels in use now, I will proceed with closer to 450 ft lbs for the fronts & outers & closer to 400 for the inners. . . .
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 07:15:23 AM »

One thing for sure, if the inner is not torqued enough and comes loose , it doesn't matter what the outer one is torqued to.  Cheers Gerry
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 12:16:00 PM »

Thanks all,
I am going to torque the inner studs / nuts to 400 ft.lb.,
Gary
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Gary
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 12:52:20 PM »

Not that you can't do as you choose, but the correct torque is 450 - 500 for the Budd inner cap nuts.  As noted, they are not SAE grade fasteners so SAE torque specs are meaningless.  It's actually quite important to have the inner nuts done up at least as tight as the outer nuts.  If they are torque to a lower spec than the outer nuts they will move as you put the final tightening on the outers, and when you go to undo them the inners may move first, so you get the unhappy task of undoing the outers while the inners are themselves unscrewing first.  Not that that's a disaster, but it isn't right.

Some references...

http://www.firsttruck.ca/wiki/Wheels-and-Tires/Wheel-And-Specs.pdf
http://webmain02.fire.ca.gov/pubs/issuance/6700/fnf022.pdf
http://lelandbrake.com/images/catalog/472-473.pdf

Brian
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 04:04:12 PM »

So noted Bryan, will do, thank you
Gary
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Gary
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 05:39:29 PM »

Gary, the first link given by Brian has the wheel stud retainer nut torque for 3/4-16 at 175-200 ftlb.  That nut is on the back side of the hub and cannot be accessed with out removing the drum.  I would not proceed without checking a manual from the mfg of the hub. The most common mfg is Meritor. They have a website called literature on demand.  You can call 866-668-7221 and ask for the manual number for your hub.  When I replaced my rear differential and brakes the online manual was very helpfull.   

Some of the information given over the phone by the tech help was not correct (it did not make sense) but the actual manual had the correct information.  I asked for the torque spec for the yoke nut.  The tech told me it was 350 ftlb, when I read the manual is was over 900 ftlb.

Thanks, Milo
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 07:00:58 AM »

  Useing a little common sense, I just hammer my lug nuts on with an impact.  Has worked so far.
Comments negative or positive welcome.
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Jim Keefauver/1985 Wanderlodge PT36/6V92TA/MT654CR/East Tn.
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 07:16:33 AM »

Jim,

tightening lug nuts with an impact wrench is like checking tire pressures with a hammer: all you know is that the nuts are somewhat tight, and that the tires have some air in them. You need a torque wrench and a tire pressure gauge to do it correctly. Over tightening lug nuts, like a 1" gun will do, will stretch them and weaken them.

JC
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JC
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 09:03:20 AM »

If I had an impact wrench that was rated at 450 ft/# max, I would probably just use that.  My torque wrench does not go near that high.  My method is to hang my 150# body on a 3 ft extension bar.
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 09:09:37 AM »

I have a big 1" drive air wrench that I use (if I have air) to take the nuts off.  I have a 1/2" air wrench (Chicago Pneumatic, so a good one) rated at 450 ft lbs that I use to put them on.  I let it rattle to it's hearts content, then I use the torque wrench.  It always takes a quarter to a half turn to click so I know the air wrench isn't doing the job.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 06:11:00 PM »

I found 2 of my wheels had cracks and the holes on the others were very worn down, pretty sure all was due to over torquing by tire shops. First time i went to take off a wheel i could not break any nuts loose until i got a 12 to 1 torque multiplier and even then it was a strain to get them off. New wheels all around since then, even for the spare tire, and NOBODY touches my wheels but me!!!  Much easier to get them off when they are torqued to the proper setting!
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John316
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 06:34:23 PM »

I am with Ed. We invested in a full blown 600ft lbs torque wrench that is always in the bus. If we have work done on the road, in a tire shop, I am standing there while they tighten the lug nuts. We always talk before they touch the bus with the impact. I always ask them to turn the air down, and or put a torque stick on there that is rated for something like 350 lbs. Then I will torque them myself. Some shops don't like it when I am involved, others understand when I explain it, and have no problem.

John
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