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Author Topic: Cummins big cam 3 400 turbo setup  (Read 4340 times)
rusty
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« on: January 27, 2013, 11:14:32 AM »

Tom C, and anyone else. The shop that does most of our work on larger motors was the one that told me I was stuck with want I have. I know that this shop goes by the book and is not interested in changing stock parts so I can understand why they gave that answer.
 The motor that I have is a Reman ( probably from Mexico ). The tag says it is a 1984 NTC 400 BC3. The CPI is 891-ff257. The motor SN is 60509711. Timing code is BY .065.
 The turbo is a Holset SN M 88924, Assy # 3523415, and Kit number 3801597 RX.
 With this information can you determine what turbo I could use to help with the soot problem. I am not interested in cutting the fuel back as I sometimes pull a trailer and need the power.

Thank You
Wayne
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HB of CJ
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 12:48:16 PM »

If anybody can clean up your BC3 400, they can.  Be aware of what the CPL says it has in it; vs. what the engine ACTUALLY has in it.  May be a big difference inside.  You may have to do a look-and-see.  HB of CJ (old coot)
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azdieselman
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 07:48:59 PM »

When I ran your ESN, I came up with a 3801598RX. It's a dual entry turbo, So it may be an HT4B. I'm not sure what your soot problem is about. Do you run at a low rpm?
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rusty
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2013, 06:06:24 AM »

No I run at 1850 RPM. I think the fuel is not being completely burnt. That's why Tom is on the right track, to much fuel or a to small turbo. I hope we can find a larger turbo. The only other problem could be to small of muffler. It is a 5 inch in and out. Both inlet and outlet on the same end.

Wayne



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luvrbus
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 06:44:03 AM »

Wayne, I never owned a 855 that would run over 3 or 4,000 hrs without changing injectors fwiw they are also bad about cam wear.

When we rebuilt that engine we installed the N-14 liners and pistons that done away with the white smoke on start up also great engines but they do smoke the

 You start changing turbos you will give hp and torque up in some range either on top end mid range or the lower end BTDT

good luck
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 06:50:47 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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azdieselman
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 06:59:47 AM »

Clifford beat me to it. I would have the overhead checked. Not just adjusted, But checked, See if it is loose. The #1 cause of cam failure is a loose injector train. Pull the injectors and have them cleaned. If you find any that are really loose, You can pull the pan and inspect the cam from below. Do you have a boost gauge? You could have an intake leak also. Does this have a pulse manifold?
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rusty
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 07:15:07 AM »

The overhead has been done on a regular interval. In fact it has just been done before the last trip. The shop that does it is a well respected shop and when I had mine done there was another 400 they were working on. Clifford if you use an average of 50 miles an hour I have some where around 2200 hours on that motor. I would still be interested if there is a different turbo and what I would have to give up for it.

Wayne
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Uglydog56
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 12:13:14 PM »

Pittsburgh Power has a turbo upgrade for you engine.  I think 5" is pretty marginal for exhaust at your horsepower level.  I would also take a look at the intake piping to make sure it is adequate, at least 6".
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luvrbus
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2013, 12:38:04 PM »

Wayne, here is the flow rates on your engine if it will help

Intake    1000 cfm
Exhaust  2426 cfm
exhaust temp should be 850 degrees  @2100 always start here makes life a lot easier 5 inch should be good that will give you 3829 cfm flow with a straight pipe 45's and 90 bends will reduce the flow rate
 
good luck
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 01:26:20 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2013, 04:19:46 PM »

5" exhaust is used on a 4 stroke up to 600hp. Check your muffler-maybe too stuffed. Donaldson makes a 5" same side in and out that is made for turbo engines. I have one on my 8V-71 and it makes a very pleasant exhaust note. If your muffler is stuffed to the point that you can't here the exhaust note at all-maybe time for a new muffler. They aren't especially expensive. Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2013, 06:23:36 PM »

   Do you have a air to air after cooler, it would take 2 people to check for a small hole in one of the hoses , the next check is pressure test the cooler, but KONW you can blow it, it only takes a cracked tube to cause problems.
   Holes in the connector hoses are hard to find, and you can get a slight burn.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2013, 06:32:48 PM »

All the BC 400's we had were water after cooled
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chessie4905
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2013, 07:01:16 PM »

maybe it has already been done, but I'd put a restriction tattle tale  gauge on the turbo inlet to check for restriction, put a boost gage to check boost, and put a low pressure gauge into exhaust outlet to check for restriction before I spent more money on parts or guessing. Gauges are fairly cheap and can be temp installed for diagnostics.
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2013, 08:37:55 PM »

Wayne, Personally I think that motor is toast and you should buy a replacement. I'd take the old motor off your hands and dispose of it properly for you because I'm just such a good guy though.

You're not buying that line of thinking are you? Darn.

It was worth a try.

RB
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rusty
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2013, 06:14:35 AM »

Clifford is correct it is a water after cooled. I do have a gauge on the inlet pipe and it did have a restriction so I but another air filter on it. That did not seem to help. I have taken the filter out and ran the motor and it does not make a difference. I do not have a boost gauge or a back pressure gauge. Maybe that is the next step or maybe just run it another 100,000 miles and buy more soap.

Sorry Rick  If you are this way next summer stop by.

Wayne
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Hard Headed Ken
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 11:57:16 AM »

Wayne, I think I remember reading somewhere that a Big Cam Cummings has a cam retard mechanism and few people even know it's there and even fewer know how to adjust it properly. Here's a forum that mentions it. http://www.pulloff.com/phorum/read.php?2,105520,106054

Ken
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 01:31:16 PM »

I have found a resonator cured a few issues with much improved breathing, have used a few Walke resonators, 5" shorty type. Always impressed at the big boost in performance.
Dave Am
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rusty
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 06:30:59 AM »

Ken that is an interesting read. I will see if my shop has heard of it.
Dave I had a resonator that I was going to but on and sold it after I followed a friend from Kingman to Bullhead city. He had his Jakes on all the way down and with that resonator I am sure there was so broken windows.

Wayne
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luvrbus
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 06:44:39 AM »

Cummins upgraded the 855 to the LPF liners and pistons to stop that around 1987 or a bouts,the difference was the liner would round out and not the piston like on the older models machine work has to be done on the older blocks to accept the LPF liners and pistons 

Just buy more soap and run the puppy Wayne you are not going to cure the problem without spending big bucks BTDT that engine will run for a long time even if it annoying to you
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Ed Brenner
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2013, 07:15:23 AM »

Wayne , sooner or later you knew a smart -ss would chime in.
The cure is simple  FINISH the other bus with the 60 series, problem cured !!  Grin Grin
ED
 
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Ed Brenner
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2013, 08:35:12 AM »

Aneroid valve??
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HB of CJ
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« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2013, 03:39:13 PM »

Are at least three of several types of cam and injector timing used on the old Big Cam series of 855 Cummins engines.  What I was told is that few individuals today know how to trouble shoot and service these older types of mechanical controls.  When they work, they work great...the problem is that sometimes they don't work quite right and the mill suffers.  Again...try Pittsburg Fuel Injection. Also FWIW, I would not believe anyones word as to what is inside an engine...just costs a gasket and seal kit to do a tear down and look and see.  Weird parts sometimes end up inside rebuilt mills.  HB of CJ (old coot)

Not sure also if your mill also has the big water pump which you will need.
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azdieselman
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« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2013, 03:49:38 PM »

Fixed, MVT, HVT, STC. Being a ReCon engine, The parts list is pretty short on QSOL. I have built plenty of these. If you follow the CPL, There shouldn't be a smoking problem. Verifing what's actually in the engine may be the next step.
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rusty
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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2013, 06:13:30 AM »

Thank you all for your comments. Looks like I need to look inside and find out just what I have and find someone that knows this motor. Maybe the the guys that I have working on my motor are not as good as I think they are, As far as the water pump I have no idea all I know is I do not have a heat problem. The motor has never got hot and I have driven in some hot weather.

Wayne
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