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Author Topic: To DDEC or Not to DDEC, that is the question  (Read 4835 times)
uncle ned
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« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2006, 06:39:36 AM »



keith

   do not give up on the 6v92 swap if you are truly a hot rod person.  I may have heating problems with mine, but the feeling when you can pull out and pass one of the new stick and staples is great. my heating problems are probly all my fault. to much fuel and a heavy foot.Make it to jack's this news year and see several different ways to put the 6v92 into an 04.

Ned Sanders
"huggy bear"

ps
i pull a big trailer full of dirt bikes
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4104's forever
6v92 v730
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gg04
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2006, 08:31:32 AM »

 The factory rating on the 6L71ta ddec II was 300hp and 740tq....as used in transit buses..with one of the 730series trans,,,The eprom is adjustable but only within these limits with the factory code...Most transit agencies seem to have had them turned down,at least on all of the motors I have seen,,,using the eprom from a Ford or GM tractor using the ddec motor will give you adjlustability from D D of up to 350hp using the original injectors....changing injectors and turbo and going to marine will give up to 465hp if you could get rid of the heat....Mine is set at 325hp and I love it...10+mpg and I can run with anyone...These motors are not hard to install and in my mind are definetly worth the time and trouble to install..Have met more 04 owners who would do this swap than any other.after looking at my bus...more hp and torque and keep the original trans...all the other things negative being said are just the same things I  had people tell me when I first thought about this swap...Just didn't work out to be true...You have to seperate fact from fiction...gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
gg04
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2006, 09:17:28 AM »

borrowed a camera and posted finished install pictures..It all fits ...gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
RJ
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2006, 10:05:23 AM »


Russ, you might think I'm someone else? My wifes name is Katie, and this is my only real project right now. Any case, I've posted the thought of stuffing a 6V92t on other threads on this board, and it's pretty much been shot down. Not saying I won't do it, but I'm exploring all my options.
 

Keith -

Ooops!  Sorry, thought your better half's name was Linda, based on some pic captions on the link you provided.  Same with all the "project cars" that were there. . .

Having a "senior moment" - forgot that the 6V92 was the one attached to the V-730. . . and the 6L71T is a stand-alone.

Now, an off-topic question. . . is Linda single???   Shocked  Grin
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RJ Long
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Fresno CA
eglluvr
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2006, 10:14:02 AM »


Russ, you might think I'm someone else? My wifes name is Katie, and this is my only real project right now. Any case, I've posted the thought of stuffing a 6V92t on other threads on this board, and it's pretty much been shot down. Not saying I won't do it, but I'm exploring all my options.
 

Keith -



Now, an off-topic question. . . is Linda single???   Shocked  Grin



I Spewed my coffee....LOL  Can't keep a Bus Nut Down!
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keithshotrodshop
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2006, 06:16:48 PM »

Uh, Russ, I still think you are confusing me with someone else. I haven't posted any pictures or links.
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keithshotrodshop
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2006, 06:21:01 PM »

Would using a tractor computer also allow me to use a non-computerized trans?
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NJT5047
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2006, 06:54:44 PM »

Where you gonna find a LH tractor engine?   I would guess that the ECM is rotation specific.   It has to calculate fuel timing parameters.....??  Most transverse (V drive) engine installs are LH...there are some RH 4 strokes hanging in transverse buses, but they have a gizmo that reverses the trans input.   Now an S50 would make a nice powerplant for your hot-rod bus....
You may  find that the DDEC system would work without the trans com-link.  There are only a couple of "shutdown" codes....related to low oil, low water, hot water, and hot oil. Otherwise, it goes.  May need a VSS of some sort....the ECM might have to see road speed to calculate fuel.... load v throttle setting?  Maybe not?   The OEM install used a VSS located in the trans.
gg04....did you use the donor trans..v731?  That would be a good way to fly.  A complete donor is looking better all the time!  The amount of work involved is looking bigger all the time too! Wink     
Your outcome, from a diagnostic perspective, may be better if the engine was installed in a 'stock" condition so that any bugs can be cleaned up before hot-rodding the engine begins.   
Interesting project to ponder! 

JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
RJ
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« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2006, 07:23:35 PM »


Uh, Russ, I still think you are confusing me with someone else. I haven't posted any pictures or links.



Keith -

Me bad. . . Senior Moment.  Time to shake the cobwebs out of the grey matter!  Angry 

Had you and Chaz mixed up. . .  Here's the link I was referring to:

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/?sc=1&addtype=local

Check out the '56 Chevy on page 6. . .

 Wink

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RJ Long
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gg04
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2006, 07:53:13 AM »

I am running a stock 4sp..  with a ford installed ecm off of a right hand engine..the ecm has no clue what direction the engine is running...I just reads information from the senders .. DDEC II is a duel box system with oil pressure,water temp,fuel pressure,turbo boost, and water level sensors..Plus the timming sensors.. water level ,diagnostic plug, and throttle pedal are the three thing normaly not included with engine assemblys and you must have them..These are all the same negative  things  people on the boards (supposedly ddec gurus)told me when I first started looking into this swap for myself...The ford ecm is dealer adjustable for Hp and tq..the factory ecm was too limited by smog programming for a transit bus and only adjustable up to 300hp...No dealer wanted to touch it even installed in a older body.. So I went with combo I am now running...It was set at 325hp when I got it, we have turned it up and down and the original setting seems to be the best for power and milage..Looked into series 50 and cummins swaps at the same time...both are rated at the same hp and torque as the 6L71 ta ddec....The series  50 offers better milage if you are wanting to run an auto trans..But  is not a swap for those not strong in all fabricating talents(look at bernies engine trans swap) not an simple install... gg04
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If you personally have not done it  , or saw it done.. do not say it cannot be done...1960 4104 6L71ta ddec Falfurrias Tx
edwin b
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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2006, 01:08:43 PM »

I did the swap to a 6-71 TA  in my 04 and happy with the ddec.  I can only get 275 hp,  dd guy said i couldn't get any more?  Can I get more hp?
thanks
edwin b 
4104-250
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keithshotrodshop
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2006, 03:28:15 PM »

On that ford ecm, how do you adjust the settings, is there a knob?
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TomC
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2006, 09:07:58 AM »

As with any 6-71, you can reconfigure the block and head to any arrangement you want.  Same with rotation.  So buy the engine that you need, and change it to your configuration.  If the engine only will go to 275hp, probably has an injector restriction.  375hp is not unheard of from the 6-71 for over the road use.  But you need to be careful of too much horsepower with the 4 spd manual since the engine is lugged at every shift.  300hp probably would be a good upper limit.  Whereas the automatic rarely goes below 1,400rpm, a higher horsepower could be used.  Just make sure of having enough cooling capability.  Running a second radiator or an air to air intercooler would be a good idea.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
keithshotrodshop
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« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2006, 06:39:52 AM »

I appreciate the thought. I actually plan to swap from a manual. The motor I am looking at buying is a V-drive coach motor, so there is no need to change the rotation. From my reasearch, 6-71's are not all nessesarily interchangeable. All of the boat and truck 6-71s I've seen have had the blower on the right side of the block, instead of the left, so this could cause some great clearance issues. After speaking with several Detroit guys, they confirmed this, that the coach block is specific to coaches because of this, however there are a few coach motors running around in industrial applications such as generators and other large equipment. Yes, it's true that you can reverse the rotation, but this wouldn't do much good if the blower is still on on the wrong side.

Also, the later coach heads have the exhaust on the left side of the head. I'm not sure if this can be turned around the other way, but I actually like this setup better, because I can not get to it on my silversides being on the right side of the head and up against the bulkhead.
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« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2006, 08:48:58 AM »

Keith, (assuming your name, hope I'm right)
You need to listen to gg04. He has done it, is knowledgeable about, & of course has actual answers. Like he stated, he got alot of opinions, assumptions, & old wives tales that are just that, which could have prevented him from doing something that he is now very happy with. I have two XL's that were converted to DDEC's, no sweat. The drivers beat the hell out of those buses over three hundred days a year, & there are no issues, especially related to anything electronic. There are lots of things that I do with buses, that people say cannot be done, that I do everyday & have been doing for years. You are lucky for gg04, actual information from actual experience.
Good Luck & have fun
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