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Author Topic: Starting Bussie after a 3 year layup  (Read 2185 times)
Sipapu
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« on: March 06, 2013, 04:47:42 PM »

I am in Portland picking up Bussie (1969 GMC T8H5305A).  She is in really good shape.  The DD8v71 started right up; I serviced the oil-bath filters, check all the fluids and airbags, added a dryer to the air system- and was off to get new tires and a mechanic's 'look over', but I could not get her into gear.  Tiny bit of reverse, but then nothing.

I examined the air solenoids and actuate the shift linkage - they were in bad shape so I removed, cleaned and re-soldered some frayed wires - no difference.  I called Luke and he said to disconnect the shifter arm on the tranny and manually put it in gear.  Which I did, but even in gear when I start it, it still appears to be in neutral (well - the motor races and the coach will not move).  At this point the solenoids are totally bypassed and with a manual shift into gear, I can't figure out why its not 'in gear'.  Tranny was serviced 1000 miles/5 years ago.  Fluids appear almost a gallon high.

Luke went home right after I spoke to him - so I don't know a next step and I'm outta ideas - anyone want to venture any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

RICK
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
Scott Crosby
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 05:34:41 PM »

Am I missing what trans you have?? 
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61 GM Fishbowl 4516 102" 35'
Sipapu
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 06:08:10 PM »

Allison VS-2, sorry Smiley     (VS2-8)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 07:49:55 PM by Sipapu » Logged

New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 06:27:15 PM »

Hmmm,....sitting in Portland for 3 years without moving?  If it was outside in the rain your brakes may be rusted.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
Scott Crosby
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 06:28:26 PM »

Brandon is in Portland area and he knows every inch of a vs2 and might even have some parts for one.   http://theghostbus.org/
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61 GM Fishbowl 4516 102" 35'
Scott Crosby
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 06:32:20 PM »

If it was the brakes the engine wouldn't race when in gear.  If he had a little bit of R did it actually move?   Sounds like you have a Neutral safety override switch to be able to start in gear.  Technically not in gear, just torque converter.   I don't think you can check the fluid accurately with it cold.  Do you have the vs2 manual? 
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61 GM Fishbowl 4516 102" 35'
Scott Crosby
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 06:38:53 PM »

I sent Brandon a Facebook message and a link to this to see if he can help you. 
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61 GM Fishbowl 4516 102" 35'
Sipapu
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 06:40:14 PM »

Yes, the Maintenance Manual for GM Coach Hydraulic Drive Type V and the Service Manual for VS Series
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
luvrbus
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 06:49:54 PM »

If the fluid level does not drop with the engine running and stays the same with the engine off then the pump is not picking the fluid up
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Sipapu
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 06:51:47 PM »

Yes, she did move a foot and yes, the racing engine sure sounds just like in neutral.  The air pressure seemed correct at difference phases (started using a ir compressor; then engine got 115-120 or so.  Everything seemed to be normal.  She has sat for three years uncovered.  My direct email is rick@abstractusa.com and all help/ideas are greatly appreciated.
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
robertglines1
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 07:23:51 PM »

Dumb question ; there couldn't be ice or water in the trans pan?? keeping fluid from being picked up?  I know nothing about Vs-2    Bob
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 08:06:08 PM »

OK,  I am going by memory here since I got rid of my 5301 w/VS2-8 about 10 yrs ago.
I didn't really learn much about the transmission, other than it was toast, and I wouldn't use it in my "new" 4905.  So, please excuse my non-technical explanation.
 
On my 5301, shifter lever had three detents F(orward), N(eutral), and R(everse).  As soon as you pushed the shifter to the right, i.e. out of the detent, it triggered a switch, and no matter how much you revved it, you weren't going anywhere.  Since the "brass cones?" were gone that kept the shaft from spinning in Neutral, I had to shut it off to put in F or reverse, as it would grind and never go in.  Once it was somewhat warmed up, I shut off the engine, put it in F(or R), restart the engine, and then it would go. 

I would look at those swiches at the shifter, along with the wiring diagram, and see if they are working correctly.

I remember a trip from Florida to Pennsylvania, when coming around Washington DC, in the middle of 5 lanes of stop-and-go traffic, the bus revved and went nowhere!  I started sweating profusely, and pressed the throttle again----and nothing!!  Then I looked down and saw that my 5 yr old co-pilot had kicked the shifter out of the detent, but not as far as the Neutral.
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Steve Toomey
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Sipapu
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 08:21:32 PM »

Thnks - this is sounding similar to my problem.
 
On my 5301, shifter lever had three detents F(orward), N(eutral), and R(everse).  As soon as you pushed the shifter to the right, i.e. out of the detent, it triggered a switch, and no matter how much you revved it, you weren't going anywhere.  Since the "brass cones?" were gone that kept the shaft from spinning in Neutral, I had to shut it off to put in F or reverse, as it would grind and never go in.  Once it was somewhat warmed up, I shut off the engine, put it in F(or R), restart the engine, and then it would go. 
Angry
I would look at those swiches at the shifter, along with the wiring diagram, and see if they are working correctly.

I remember a trip from Florida to Pennsylvania, when coming around Washington DC, in the middle of 5 lanes of stop-and-go traffic, the bus revved and went nowhere!  I started sweating profusely, and pressed the throttle again----and nothing!!  Then I looked down and saw that my 5 yr old co-pilot had kicked the shifter out of the detent, but not as far as the Neutral.

[/quote]
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
seaton@mta
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 05:24:33 AM »

Excuse what may be a dumb question, but...  Your bus doesn't have the push button gear shift at the the top of the dash does it?  I only ask because I had a T8H5306A (96 inch wide version of yours) and that had to be worked the same time as the floor shifter.  Otherwise, the obvious.  the gremlins set in with a vengeance when a bus sits for a long period of time.

-- Seaton
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hargreaves
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 11:05:53 AM »

Does'nt the solonoid on the valve body need to have power to have it work, as I remember it momentarily disconnects power to put it in and out of gear. When we had issues with the switches we manually put it in gear and ran a jumper from a power source to the solonoid and drove it back to the shop for repairs.  Cheers Gerry
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
Utahclaimjumper
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2013, 08:37:12 AM »

  BUSSIE ??  Are you really really only 6 years old??>>>Dan
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:03:23 AM by Utahclaimjumper » Logged

Utahclaimjumper 
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Sipapu
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 11:09:22 AM »

Gerry, you nailed it. I was able to add direct power to the neutral safety switch and she went right in gear ( thank you Bill Gerrie).

Then on my maiden drive, a valve stuck (she had been sitting for three years) and destroyed a piston. I found Wade Drury in Bend, who seems very, very knowledgeable and he is changing the head, piston, conarm and bearing, etc and at Bill's suggestion the main bearings and rod). Talk about jumping into Bus ownership with both feet!
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
luvrbus
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 11:59:46 AM »

That is strange a bus runs for a 3+hr drive then a valve sticks never heard of that before
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Sipapu
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 11:24:55 PM »

It only ran about 10 minutes - a few miles.

My 10 year old daughter named Bussie.
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
John316
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 11:37:39 PM »

Sipapu,

Welcome aboard. Glad to have you. Sorry to hear about the troubles. That is rough.

A quick education that I usually give newbies. If Clifford (aka luvrbus) says something, you can go to the bank with it. He has forgotten way more about just about everything that involves buses, then I will probably ever know. So if he says something sounds fishy about your engine diagnosis, I would take to secs and track that down. Maybe you just explained it wrong. Maybe the mechanic is trying to get more money out of you, by spinning you a plausible sounding story. Maybe nothing at all, but I would slow down and tell the guys on here just exactly what is going on. They can and do help a LOT. And if luvrbus says something, just sit down and listen.

Just my .0002. FWIW YMMV

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
hargreaves
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2013, 02:16:23 PM »

That solonoid is what actually hydraulically puts the trans in gear. there is a problem usally with the micro switch in the shift tower.  Hope the engine repair is not too costly.   Cheers Gerry
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now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
Sipapu
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2013, 09:15:05 PM »

Sipapu,

Welcome aboard. Glad to have you. Sorry to hear about the troubles. That is rough.

A quick education that I usually give newbies. If Clifford (aka luvrbus) says something, you can go to the bank with it. He has forgotten way more about just about everything that involves buses, then I will probably ever know. So if he says something sounds fishy about your engine diagnosis, I would take to secs and track that down. Maybe you just explained it wrong. Maybe the mechanic is trying to get more money out of you, by spinning you a plausible sounding story. Maybe nothing at all, but I would slow down and tell the guys on here just exactly what is going on. They can and do help a LOT. And if luvrbus says something, just sit down and listen.

Just my .0002. FWIW YMMV

John

Thanks for the welcome and I will take those suggestions to heart. Several folk have already been very helpful here. The 'rebuild' starts Friday through the weekend. I'm sitting in on the whole thing ( even if I have to pay extra). Smiley. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

Rick
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New owner - 1969 GMC T8H5305a-020
This is the bus Sandra Bullock did NOT trash in the movie, Speed
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