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Author Topic: air assit clutch  (Read 1493 times)
jimsflx
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« on: March 26, 2013, 06:11:26 PM »

i want to put one on my 4106 a friend has done them years ago but can not remember all the parts. old age we have the slave cylinder thanks jim
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jim&roenie seagraves sebring fl. 4106-3083
OneLapper
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2013, 06:33:49 PM »

I'm interested in doing this as well.  Someone mentioned using an air brake treadle and air cylinder.  I like the idea of that even though it not air "assist", more like "air actuator".  That the direct I'm exploring now.   
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
jimsflx
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 07:03:37 PM »

onelapper the po had a brake chamber on the clutch arm under the drivers floor, he made all the parts for it but said he never used it.it did not work so i took all of it off, i want to use the cylinder back at the trans, jim
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jim&roenie seagraves sebring fl. 4106-3083
pabusnut
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 07:04:59 PM »

I think you want something like this:

http://www.hb-industries.com/air.htm

Please note the standard disclaimer--I have no relationship with this vendor, nor do I wish to endorse him, other than to say it is a nice picture of an air assist clutch device. Grin

Steve Toomey
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Steve Toomey
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chessie4905
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 08:00:39 PM »

here's what you need. I think the rotochamber was 6 or 8 inches in diameter.


http://www.bendixvrc.com/itemDisplay.asp?documentID=2395



Treadle: It was a Bendix  normal brake pedal unit. However, there is a Bendix treadle that is listed as giving better "feel' during application, which would be a better one to use. Make up the brackets, air hose, possibly a pressure regulator??, and will probably need to shorten the clutch lever. I wouldn't modify the original lever if required. Be better to make a new one. You might use the regular lever if you mount some sort of clevis attachment point that could be slid up or down the clutch arm to match required travel of the chamber.
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GMC h8h 649#028
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RJ
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 10:01:57 PM »

Jim & Mark -

Don't you guys have the "mousetrap" on your 4106s?

When you follow the shop manual procedure for adjusting the clutch and the mousetrap, it makes the clutch pedal almost as light as a VWs.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2013, 05:28:25 AM »

Check with the Eagle owners that have switched to a auto the Eagle used a simple air assist and it works easy to hook up also

 fwiw Gary L has photos on the unit on the Eagles board in the general chat,sometimes you guys over engineer for sure he has the slave cylinder all he needs is the control valve 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 06:30:30 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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OneLapper
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2013, 08:36:05 AM »

Jim & Mark -

Don't you guys have the "mousetrap" on your 4106s?

When you follow the shop manual procedure for adjusting the clutch and the mousetrap, it makes the clutch pedal almost as light as a VWs.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

RJ, I have the mouse trap on my clutch setup and its adjusted per the book.  The pressure that's needed to 'cam over' the springs is still considerable.  When the clutch pedal is all the way to the floor, it's easy to hold there. 

My clutch effort issue started after I rebuilt my clutch.  I found that the Kelly Bus Company in CT left out every fourth pressure plate spring to reduce the clutch pedal effort.  Since I tow with my bus I installed the missing springs.  The clutch effort went up by, well, 25%.  I can handle it with a work boot on, but sneakers aren't an option.   I look pretty stupid gettin off the bus with a flip-flop on my right foot (air throttle) and a steel shank work boot on the other!  The other issue is my SO and my father have a very difficult time double clutching with such a heavy clutch. 
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
jimsflx
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 10:10:40 AM »

thanks for all the info guys. the manual that i have shows a air cylinder setup from the factory. did they all come with this? also where is the mouse trap and what does it looks like? thanks jim
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jim&roenie seagraves sebring fl. 4106-3083
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2013, 12:25:11 PM »

thanks for all the info guys. the manual that i have shows a air cylinder setup from the factory. did they all come with this? also where is the mouse trap and what does it looks like? thanks jim

Jim, the mouse trap has two large springs that are parallel to each other, the system sits on top of the transmission.  The system applies spring assist to the clutch actuator rod when the mechanism cams over-center.  This effectively reduces the pedal pressure needed to fully disengauge the clutch.  I have a seen and driven 4104s and 4106s that have the pedal effort that RJ describes. Mine is not one of them for who knows what reason!   I have touched every point of my clutch system and bestowed oodles of TLC upon it.  It didn't make any difference, the pedal needs quite a bit of effort to depress.

I have a manual that Shows the factory air assist.  I know there are some still out there but I have never seen one in person.  Maybe one of the historians can shed some light on how popular the air assist systems were.  
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 07:44:02 PM by OneLapper » Logged

OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
OneLapper
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 07:49:36 PM »

Check with the Eagle owners that have switched to a auto the Eagle used a simple air assist and it works easy to hook up also

 fwiw Gary L has photos on the unit on the Eagles board in the general chat,sometimes you guys over engineer for sure he has the slave cylinder all he needs is the control valve 

I'm guilty of over engineering!!  Yes, Jim has the air assist cylinder.  I need the entire setup so it the perfect excuse!

So are there any Eagle guys out there with the air assist systems Clifford mentioned?
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OneLapper
1964 PD4106-2853
www.markdavia.com
Dreamscape
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 04:21:51 AM »

I have one that I left under my first tunnel cover. It would require removing carpet and trim to get to it. Not sure I have the time right now, maybe in a couple of months unless someone is willing to make it worth my while.  Grin

That cylinder sure made it easy to use the clutch pedal.

Of course it's used. Wink
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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 05:50:13 AM »

I have designed an air assist clutch system for my 15, but it is on a hydraulic system. I used the parts from the stock system on an Eagle. If you are interested you can go to my project page on the Eagle site.

Wayne
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