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Author Topic: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)  (Read 5762 times)
RJ
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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2013, 08:11:52 PM »

Bern -

PD4106-2192 came out of the factory new as fleet number 4702 to Eastern Greyhound Lines, HQ'd at the time in Cleveland, OH.  It was part of a 175-bus order delivered between December of 1963 and March of 1964.  Based on coach deliveries to others during the same time frame, I'm going to guess yours went to 'Hound in January of '64.  Have no clue where it went after they sold it, which was usually in the fall ten years after purchase ('74 in your case.)

Based on the above, you can honestly tell folk you have a "jen-u-wine retired Greyhound bus!"  There's also a possibility that Mama's Daddy may have driven this coach back when he worked for the Blue Pooch, since his run was part of the EGL service area.  Serendipity?

There are three leveling valves on the 4106: one on the front axle, and two on the rear.  The front controls the ride height only, the rears control not only ride height, but port/starboard listing.  By saying that the driver's side drops first, suspect that side's valve.  Fairly easy to replace - take it off (marking the air lines as to where they go) and throw on a new one, they're not worth trying to rebuild.  Can be had at most HD truck parts warehouses, Mohawk or Luke.  Common leak - have seen brand new coaches just delivered from the factory sitting cattywampus in the lot the morning after arrival.  Go figure. . .

Dunno where your avatar went either.  You upload an avatar pic from the "Forum Profile Information" link in LH menu off the Profile tab above.  I used the bottom of the three pic options for mine.

2300 miles on a gallon of oil in a two-stroke?  Yeah. . . right.  1000 - 1200 is more like it on an engine in good condition.  Always check the oil in the morning after sitting overnight, or at least 20 minutes at a minimum when at a fuel stop.  Takes awhile for it all to drain back down!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2013, 02:23:20 PM »

Clifford, I worked in the oilfields/construction industry in Alaska for 35 years.
During the last 10-15 of those I worked for a Chevron jobber.
ARCO BP and Phillips were our largest customers.

Mobil never was considered an option until they developed their synthetics (1974) and only marketed them in Alaska around 1998-2000,....as you probably know the oil companies love to spend money.
But the arctic is a tough place for oil, We never had engine oil related failures.We sold 1000's of gallons of Delo 400,100,and 0w/30 each month.
we took deliveries in 9000 gallon tankers.
ps. i am sure Mobil is good stuff, just not easy to find everywhere.
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Barney Five
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2013, 06:17:43 PM »

Sounds like the Hatfields and McCoys are getting a new start! Anyhow, thanks for the different viewpoints on oil.

akroyaleagle - Four inches overfull! No wonder it was all over everything. When I got here from San Antonio I did have a generous coating on both the bus and the toad. Like to never got the car cleaned up. Makes me think I'll be glad to get that original stick installed, because I think from what y'all are saying that I have about the same thing going on. Maybe more like an inch or two instead of four. I'm a shade-tree mechanic so oil doesn't scare me. I'm just new to a big moose like this, and I really appreciate all the good advice. I'd like to hear your method of checking for the correct level. Some of the other guys mentioned it already but I like many options.

eagle19952 - Thanks for the addresses. One of them is just about 25 miles down the road from us. That's bearable. I always wanted to go to Alaska but never got there.

luvrbus - Well, a body would think the manufacturer would know what works best in their engines. When you say not so good with Delo, what kind of problems did you have?

(And don't forget my dipstick!)

RJ - Thanks for the research, very interesting. But no chance Pappy drove this one--he quit in the late 40's. Interesting thought, though.

Whoever converted this rig apparently changed the air valves so it has a valve for each corner. I don't think it's the valves because I don't hear any air leaking inside the bus. But then, if it's leaking back through the lines it might not make noise. Hmm. Without looking I have thought it would have to be either 1] perforated air line, 2] loose or broken air line-to-bag connection or 3] perforated bag. I just haven't been able to crawl under it to look yet. Glad to know where to start looking for parts.

Avatar. I found the right page and got my sig line working, but when I browse to my pic, insert it there and click Change Profile, it comes back to the same page with nothing in the browse line. Did you do that or import yours from a web address? You said three pic options. I see "no picture," "artists" and "musicians." Is that the three you see? If I click on artists or musicians it puts their pictures up, not mine. I've tried all I know to try without going to Photobucket and I can't figure what they want. I wanted to stay onsite but maybe PB is the only choice.

Happy Easter Egg!

Bern
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 06:21:50 PM by Barney Five » Logged

Bern LaLone
Gerrardstown, WV
1964 GM 4106 - 8v71 - Allison V-730-D
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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2013, 06:50:42 PM »

Where I have a problem with the Delo 100 in the 2 strokes it is fine till it gets 3 or 4 thousand miles on it then for what ever reasoning the 2 strokes will starting using more oil all I have been around won't use a gal in 2500 miles with clean Delo 100 then after 3 or 4 thousand miles oil consumption will increase to a gal every 1000 to 15 hundred miles
 
 Mike is a believer in Delo 100 even when I showed him all the sludge in his old engine and the temperature was good it wasn't running cold lol or he would not needed a new engine he went with Delo 100 for his new engine and Doyle went the opposite direction after seeing it he went with Rotella 

You buy a barrel of Delo 100 which I have bought several it states on the barrel after so many days you have to mix it because of separation not good IMO.

Chevron is good oil I am not bad mouthing all Chevron oil I use the Delo 400 LE 15/40 in my wife's motor home one reason it is always on sale here

 The Delo 100 I think we were sold a bill of goods Chevron spent a ton of money promoting Delo 100 for the 149 series Detroit  in the 60's and 70's that's my story and I am sticking by it

good luck on what ever oil you use
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RJ
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2013, 08:55:48 PM »

Whoever converted this rig apparently changed the air valves so it has a valve for each corner.

Sounds like a PO installed one of the campground leveling systems, eliminating the factory leveling valves.  Pros & cons to this, but livable.  What you need is a trailer bubble leveler (the one I have looks like a bulls eye target that I picked up for under five bucks at an RV supply).  Set it on the dash to your left and adjust the valves until the bubble centers when parked on a level surface, then you're good to go on the road.

HOWEVER:

Don't set the ride height too high, or your coach will ride like a bucking bronco.  Quick guide is the distance from the top of the bottom step to the ground should be 14.5" with the coach level.  Adjust all four valves accordingly to attain that height.

Avatar. I found the right page and got my sig line working, but when I browse to my pic, insert it there and click Change Profile, it comes back to the same page with nothing in the browse line. Did you do that or import yours from a web address? You said three pic options. I see "no picture," "artists" and "musicians." Is that the three you see? If I click on artists or musicians it puts their pictures up, not mine. I've tried all I know to try without going to Photobucket and I can't figure what they want. I wanted to stay onsite but maybe PB is the only choice.

When you go to the "Forum Profile Information" option under your profile, you should see three options once the page opens in the RH pane:

o  Personalized Picture

o  I have my own pic:

o  I will upload my own picture:

I used the bottom one of the three to upload mine, using the "browse" button to find in my photo files the one I wanted.  So try that and see if it works.

In the meantime, open a Photobucket account and upload lots of pics of your coach, then put the link in your sig line.  Will give us nuts more bus porn to drool over!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2013, 02:58:19 PM »

luvrbus - So Mike had sludge but you didn't after about the same mileage?  That is a very important point, and If you answer yes, it would be rather telling, IMHO. And would you venture a guess that the sludge started building after the initial 2500-mile honeymoon? That brings another question to mind. Say in ignorance I do use a lesser oil and build up some sludge. Is there a foolproof way to remove the sludge after it's deposited without clogging anything up?

Ok, so Mike went with Delo, Doyle chose Rotella and you use Delvac. Can I assume Rotella has less sludge than Delo but more than Delvac under similar conditions? I'm not trying to be nit-picky, I'm trying to get the overall picture in an unfamiliar field.

RJ - Eureka! Finally got my avatar to work. Very simple: I use Firefox most of the time but some sites are optimized for Internet Explorer and some features just don't work with Firefox. At a prompt I tried it with IE and it worked flawlessly. Now I'm back in Firefox and it's still there! So, with that out of the way I can think about Photobucket and other pics.

Happy Easter to all and to all a good night!

Bern
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Bern LaLone
Gerrardstown, WV
1964 GM 4106 - 8v71 - Allison V-730-D
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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2013, 03:29:14 PM »

If any oil does it job and is changed at the recommend intervals there should be no sludge period even if on Mikes bus if the PO used different oil the Delo should have clean it out if it did the job. 

Doyle went back to Rotella that is what he always used and tried the 100 and his consumption went up but the oil may not the only reason we are rebuilding the blower it showed some signs of leakage   

This great oil debate has been going on for years here just pick the flavor you prefer and go with it I just like Mobil the best,

I have friends that use 15/40 in their 2 strokes never had any problems either but I never saw build up like in Mikes old engine nasty to say the least  

So pick you a oil that meets specs change it every 8 to 10,000 miles it should work no matter what brand when I rebuild a DD it will leave here with Delvac 1240 after that the owner can use what ever he or she chooses makes no differences to me
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 04:34:41 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Red Rider
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2013, 05:16:28 PM »

Just to add a little fuel to the fire ---- When I bought my coach, five years ago, I asked the PO what oil he was using and his reply was "anything that's cheap" so to see a sludge bucket that Clifford referred to it is understandable. I'm not sure but I believe the engine we took out was the original one.The hub odometer showed 440,000 miles but we have no information on what happened in between.

I use the Delo 100 because of the CF-2 rating, which conforms with the manual. Clifford and I have had this discussion on several occasions and he can show you the conformity on the label of Delo 100 and Delo 400. I stick with what the manufacturer recommends even though that recommendation was made 50 years go.
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Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2013, 05:25:02 PM »

Without a doubt the original engine Mikey the upper head replacement looks to be the only replaced part on the engine I'll buy the 440,000 miles that thing is to wore out to have any less lol  

Original fiber drive and springs on the compressor drive,never A- timed,original blower drive, later C-60 injectors the old engine ran up and down the highways with 240 hp for years that is why it lasted I would say it was a true antique
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 06:03:12 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2013, 07:45:32 PM »

Here's how it's done in a conventional bus of truck with the engine and tranny upright.

It may be different in the GM's with the tilted engine and 730.

The procedure for marking the dipstick would be the same in all.


When you drain it and are ready to refill it, there is a witness plug on the trans on the street side.
Refill it until it comes out that hole.
Put the plug back in and run it until it is warm.
Remove the plug again and have someone put fluid in until it starts to come out the hole the second time.
Put the plug back in.
That's the correct level.
Check the mark on the dipstick to ensure it is correct.
If it is, good, if not remark it.
Let the bus sit overnight, recheck the fluid with it cold, mark the stick again so you can check it in the morning before starting it.
After it sits several days, check it cold again. The torque converter will have drained. Mark the stick there.
You will then have 3 marks on the stick that will cover every condition.

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Joe Laird
'78 Eagle
Huron, South Dakota
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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2013, 10:56:08 AM »

Where I have a problem with the Delo 100 in the 2 strokes it is fine till it gets 3 or 4 thousand miles on it then for what ever reasoning the 2 strokes will starting using more oil all I have been around won't use a gal in 2500 miles with clean Delo 100 then after 3 or 4 thousand miles oil consumption will increase to a gal every 1000 to 15 hundred miles

This great oil debate has been going on for years here just pick the flavor you prefer and go with it I just like Mobil the best,

To me, personal preference should be backed up by performance, and it sounds like the Delvac may have a little edge in that respect. How many miles does Delvac get after a change like you mentioned above on the Delo?

(Don't forget my dipstick!)

I use the Delo 100 because of the CF-2 rating, which conforms with the manual. Clifford and I have had this discussion on several occasions and he can show you the conformity on the label of Delo 100 and Delo 400. I stick with what the manufacturer recommends even though that recommendation was made 50 years go.

Someone on here said the CF rating is obsolete so not everyone puts it on their products anymore. So can you go by only those that still do?

akroyaleagle - Thanks for the idea. I haven't been under mine yet so I don't know if my 730 has the plug or not. That's exactly how we used to fill stick shifters, only without the overnight stuff.

Anyone know how to test the fuel gauge sender? The PO said he put in a new gauge but it still doesn't work. Makes me a little nervous even though I'm supposed to have around a 900-mile range.

Do these things have glow plugs? I told one onlooker I didn't think so and he was incredulous. Every diesel has to have glow plugs!
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Bern LaLone
Gerrardstown, WV
1964 GM 4106 - 8v71 - Allison V-730-D
RJ
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« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2013, 05:31:55 PM »

Do these things have glow plugs? I told one onlooker I didn't think so and he was incredulous. Every diesel has to have glow plugs!

Bern -

Nope, no glow plugs.  When these 2-strokes were originally designed in the 1930s, nobody knew what a glow plug was!

If the engine's in good condition, the compression's high enough that often they'll start w/in one - two turns of the crankshaft!

Look inside the fuel filler door.  On the top curve of the tank to the left of the filler neck, there may still be a sticker with the fuel tank capacity listed.  It may be buried under several layers of crud, so a little elbow grease may be needed to see it.  The 4106's came with two different tanks - standard was 140 gallons, optional was 165.  If the sticker's gone, you can measure the tank to figure out it's capacity.

As a safety precaution, and to avoid running out of fuel and having to reprime (a real PITA!!), figure all but 25 gallons of the tank is useable.  So you either have 115 or 140 gallons available, depending on which tank you coach has.  Deduct some for genset operation (if yours is diesel) and adjust accordingly.

Or, just to be doubly safe - fuel every 500 miles.  If you do, you'll probably never run out of fuel - a good thing!  Oh, and always park the coach at the end of your trip with a full tank - reduces condensation, which reduces water in the fuel, with reduces the chances of algae grown in the tank, which creates a yucky mess!

Are you having fun yet??

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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Fresno CA
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« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2013, 05:45:36 PM »

Only the 53 series DD has glow plugs,the others did have a air heater for a option just a big spark plug looking like found on other engines but you never saw one on a DD engine in a bus
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« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2013, 06:19:43 PM »

The PO told me this one is the 165 gal version but I'll look to see if the sticker is there. Musta been or how would he know? Nice to know these interesting little things.

He showed me where to give a little shot of ether into the air system and it usually starts pretty quick. Never tried to start without it so I don't know what it would do. Had a lot of trouble starting when we first got it even with ether. Finally found out the fuel line was so old and cracked up it was leaking air back to the tank and took forever to pump back up enough so it would run.

A local oil company sold me some fuel conditioner that is supposed to prevent algae. I dumped two bottles of it in the tank and ran it awhile to circulate it last fall, so hopefully it won't crawl out to meet me next time I fuel.

I do have a diesel genset, 12kw. Haven't gotten an accurate count on how much it uses per hour yet, but I did a quick and dirty one that it's about a gallon an hour. Does that sound reasonable for that size unit? I suppose it depends some on what you run off of it.

Fun? I started having fun when I climbed in the driver's seat the first time!!!

BTW, do these things normally have sun visors? This one doesn't. I had to buy a cap the first time I drove into the sun in order to see.
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Bern LaLone
Gerrardstown, WV
1964 GM 4106 - 8v71 - Allison V-730-D
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« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2013, 08:29:11 AM »

Very interesting. I just discovered online that Mobil Delvac 1240 has an API rating of CF-2/CF/SF. Hmmm. "Sign me up, Scotty!"  Wink
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM by Barney Five » Logged

Bern LaLone
Gerrardstown, WV
1964 GM 4106 - 8v71 - Allison V-730-D
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