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Author Topic: Bus questions! - Long post (newbie)  (Read 3262 times)
Topher
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« on: April 24, 2013, 06:01:39 PM »

Hi my name is Chris and I had some kinda big bus questions.

I am in the final stages of starting up a nonprofit and we are going to be buying a entertainer coach and four people will be living out of it for about 9 moths out of the year. We will be going all over the united states and maybe in a few years parts of Canada.

I am looking at a 2013 PREVOST X3 45 FT. STAR COACH (It's pretty expensive but for four people living out of it for 9 months a year I like it). It also has.
• Headroom clearance 89”
• Volvo D-13 engine “EPA 10” (500 HP)
• Allison World B500 Transmission
• Engine brakes on D13 engine
• Electric slider windows
• Full heating and air conditioning system
• Prevost Advanced Electronic Stability program
• Euro flush style cabinetry and radius corners
• Five independently zoned 13,500 BTU roof air conditioning/heat systems
• Automatic Toe kick heating systems
• Trac Star in motion satellite TV system with DVR receivers
• Electric flush macerator toilets
• Automatic vent fans
• Travertine shower with rain shower and removable wand head
• Instant hot water heaters
• 20 KW quiet generator with automatic start
• 4000 watt 24 volt inverter
• Automatic transfer switch generator to shore power
• Water tanks fresh, grey and black 100 gallon each with tank monitors
• Automatic dump valves
• Heated bays
• Over 215 cubic feet of available bay space
(Sorry for all the specs but I don't want to spend a TON of money on a bus and find out two months out that it will not work out)


1. It has 100 GL each Water, gray and black tanks. Is that enough?

2. What maintenance (other then the Oil and stuff) does it need?

3. What should I look at when buying a bus?

4. Do they make a keypad lock for the door to the bus.

5. Do I need a DOT number? (I have googled, called and searched their website with no luck) And if I do what are the costs that go with it?

6. I have a budget of $2,000 a month for maintenance and $50,000 yearly maintenance. Is that enough? (Way over priced I think but it should cover if something major happens to the bus.)

7. Do I need to do anything to the bus to use it during the winter?

8. Do you have any thoughts or words of wisdom?

I have spent the last three years of my life researching everything for my nonprofit and I have everything else taken care of but it seems like every day something else pop's up about the bus aspect of it. And I have friends who have worked on tours, some for more then twenty years but they have never had to deal with bus's. Most tour's rent their coach's and I have done that math and it about the same to buy one and you have my options to make changes.

I'm also looking at a house for the nonprofit to run out of and it has R.V. Hookup's. I figured it would be good thing to have thoughts?

Sorry for the extremely LONG post but I like to know every little detail and I would hate to be on the road for two months and find out that the bus won't work for what we need it to. Or drive around in the winter and find out that I should have done something to the pipes and now they need replaced and I hope you bus nuts are able to help me out.

Thank you
Chris
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Chris
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2013, 06:19:21 PM »

Hello Chris,

Welcome to the group. If I didn't have to be up at 0400 to take my parents to the airport I would spend more time with this, but you will find there are many here to answer those questions. The way I see it that with the budget you have allocated you won't have a problem. I cannot imagine spending more on maintenance than most common folks spend on a mortgage, and with that kind of coin you will never have to get greasy. Post some pics and a web or blog link when you get a chance.
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2013, 06:23:34 PM »

Not familiar with the converter myself. I would ck anyone's references. The equipment is pretty well standard. Might look at a couple year old coach. Lots of bargains out there now. If a XLII make sure they have the siding update done.  Would be nice but prob could find coach with less than 60,000 miles on it for 1/2 of new price. Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2013, 06:27:58 PM »

Not to bad for a startup nonprofit organization almost a million dollar bus and 74 grand a year for maintenance I am in the wrong business you need a partner     
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2013, 06:52:40 PM »

They are not listed on the prevostcar web site as a dealer or converter. Ck(prevostcar) their web site for converters of Prevost coaches they supply. FWIW Use left side when entering then go to entertainers. then to coach type-then to dealers/converters. They list who they supply--not to say that Star might not be brand new or buying thru someone else. Jon could prob help but he still can't post.  Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2013, 06:59:00 PM »

Hello Chris,

Welcome to the group. If I didn't have to be up at 0400 to take my parents to the airport I would spend more time with this, but you will find there are many here to answer those questions. The way I see it that with the budget you have allocated you won't have a problem. I cannot imagine spending more on maintenance than most common folks spend on a mortgage, and with that kind of coin you will never have to get greasy. Post some pics and a web or blog link when you get a chance.


This is the bus I am looking at http://babybonzai.com/coach/?page_id=118 and I would buy it though Staley Coach. The link to the nonprofit site it www.the24ontour.com

Not familiar with the converter myself. I would ck anyone's references. The equipment is pretty well standard. Might look at a couple year old coach. Lots of bargains out there now. If a XLII make sure they have the siding update done.  Would be nice but prob could find coach with less than 60,000 miles on it for 1/2 of new price. Bob


I have looked at a lot and I have my eye on a few but my feeling is to plan and wish (and budget) for the top of the line then work down from there. A big thing tho is for this bus you can drink the water (most entertainer coaches you can't) and also you can poop on the bus!!!! A nothing thing is this one has a shower and two burners where as most entertainer coaches do not.

For the sliding update. If its brand new would it need updated?

Thanks for the advice tho!

Not to bad for a startup nonprofit organization almost a million dollar bus and 74 grand a year for maintenance I am in the wrong business you need a partner     


I would LOVE to lower the cost of everything but I plan for the worse and pray for the best. I would hate to have something happen and cost more then that was in the budget. Also with driving a lot it will need a lot more oil changed, filters, tires and it also covers the cost of the internet. The goal is NOT to have to use that $50k but its there if the generator dies or we can't use it for a week. It's to help out their.

Thanks for all the help so far guys!!!

(added)
They are not listed on the prevostcar web site as a dealer or converter. Ck(prevostcar) their web site for converters of Prevost coaches they supply. FWIW Use left side when entering then go to entertainers. then to coach type-then to dealers/converters. They list who they supply--not to say that Star might not be brand new or buying thru someone else. Jon could prob help but he still can't post.  Bob


A star coach is a design for an entertainer coach. Most entertainer coaches have twelve bunks and a lounge in the front and back. A star coach is designed for big named stars (hince the Star Coach) where there is a bedroom in back and 2-6 bunks for crew members. They can also be used for a Motor home.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 07:03:01 PM by Topher » Logged

Chris
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2013, 07:19:05 PM »

Florida Coach is a listed converter.  There a few and it has allot to do when it comes down to who stands behind what.  There is a Star converter in Atlanta Ga that advertises the same product but is not on list.  Good luck. Your house systems will be the most maintenance and aggravating in most cases. Lots of units come with two Gen sets for that reason. FWIW  Two yrs ago I tore a no name entertainer conversion apart--lets just say it was?Huh?.    Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2013, 07:33:20 PM »

Star does a good job Bob not much difference I can see in those and the Nitetrain,Hemphill,Nashville Coach and others all the entertainers are about the same,

Staley is the dealer for those and he is on your Prevost approved list the crap I see on some of the approved converters doesn't mean much to me   

A friend of mine is on that list in Phoenix and I see what he does, all Prevost does is tell you what you cannot do to change the chassis the rest they don't care 

You been reading the PC about the delam on the Xll I was wondering when that was coming to light but you have to give Prevost a big hand they are doing the repairs free to keep it from becoming a full blown recall and that still may happen who knows
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 07:42:07 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 07:47:16 PM »

I agree Just haven't heard of him. The guy that did mine was/is still doing them.  I've made allot of mistakes! So if I can see them in  his work that was bad.  I do wish Topher the best !!!!! Don't mean to be negative at all. A little jealous maybe. I could never put the miles on a new one to justify it! 2 out of the 3 of the series of my batch (conversion series) caught fire.   Enjoy the ride! Spend several days pre-delivery learning as much about house systems as you can. They are going to be very complicated. With todays market get  it just like you want it!  Bob
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Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2013, 07:52:42 PM »

Don has been around for a long time he is more into leasing with a driver and does his own conversions I bought a Eagle from him one time years ago it was a solid coach
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 08:40:18 PM »

Chris -

Welcome aboard!  Please take a couple minutes to add a signature line to your profile, similar to mine below, so that we can better help you.  No sense sending you to a shop in Seattle for some work if you're in Charleston, right?  Might also find out you've got some busnuts nearby, too!

You're getting into a very grey area regarding the DOT, primarily because it's going to be owned by a non-profit.  It's not really an RV motorhome, because you are using it to transport folk between gigs that hopefully will support the non-profit (i.e. getting paid), vs being on vacation and just tootling around.  It's not really a revenue service vehicle in the general sense either, because you're not charging people to ride on it.

IMHO, it falls into the realm of "entertainer" being operated by a non-profit.

For years, entertainer coaches got away with not having to comply with DOT regs, but that's no longer the case.  Most nowadays are leased, and come with, or require as part of the lease, a CDL driver.  That driver has to comply with all the HOS regs, log books, daily pre-trip inspections, random drug testing, etc., etc., etc.  Plus the vehicle must go thru DOT vehicle inspections periodically.

As part of doing your homework on the DOT issue, I'd suggest you spend some time talking "in person" with a local captain of your state Highway Patrol's "Motor Carrier" division - those are the guys most familiar with DOT regs as they deal with them daily.  In addition, talking with Management at NiteCoach, Hemphill and Nashville Coach - three of the largest entertainer leasing outfits in the country - can further help clear up the grey cloud.

Once you get clarification on the DOT issue, then next thing you're going to have to deal with is insuring the beast!  Most likely you'll get all kinds of doors slammed in your face on this, but here's where the entertainer coach pros should be able to help you out.  It's not going to be cheap, however!

You haven't mentioned it, but have you budgeted for fuel?  To be conservative, figure 5 mpg @ $4.50/gallon x number of projected annual mileage.  The coach may get better than 5 mpg, but you've already said you'd rather over rather than under budget.  So these numbers will keep you safe.  (Which, btw, also means that you religiously fuel the coach every 500 miles, regardless of tank size.  Re-priming a diesel is not fun alongside the Interstate at Oh Dark Thirty!)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 10:22:46 PM »

Chris:

I do not have a bus.  However, I was looking at an older XL II star coach that Wade and Libby Staley had on their lot.  I was running different options to try to have it pay for itself, and Wade bent over backwards answering my questions and to try to make it happen.

In the course of running the insurance piece of the puzzle, I contacted Brad Stephens at
Stephens & Associates Insurance Agency, Hendersonville, TN  (615)851-1800.  He brokers insurance for leased entertainer coaches and would be a good contact for more information.


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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2013, 06:47:47 AM »

Welcome Cris, having a new bus takes a lot of the troubles out of the equation. Other than getting the bugs worked out everything else should be covered. Of course you have to go back to the builder to get it done, which would be a royal pain in the tail. Prevost has service centers around and they have been good on getting on coach problems for me. Just getting them fixed the first time with my old bus has been the problem. I usually have to go back a couple times to get the same thing repaired. Good luck with your endeavor.

glen s.
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2013, 09:01:10 AM »

The bottom line with having to have a DOT number-are you transporting people that are going to perform to make money-doesn't matter if it is a non profit or not. Also, the driver better be P rated on his license. The only time you do not need a DOT number is when this is strictly a motorhome used by your own family for pleasure touring.

Another example-horse people going to a rodeo. If the event they are competing in has the possibility of winning money-whether they do or not-is considered a professional event and your transporting a means by which to make money-hence it is a commercial vehicle requiring DOT numbers, qualified driver and driver keeping driving logs.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2013, 01:10:00 PM »

You haven't mentioned it, but have you budgeted for fuel?  To be conservative, figure 5 mpg @ $4.50/gallon x number of projected annual mileage.  The coach may get better than 5 mpg, but you've already said you'd rather over rather than under budget.  So these numbers will keep you safe.  (Which, btw, also means that you religiously fuel the coach every 500 miles, regardless of tank size.  Re-priming a diesel is not fun alongside the Interstate at Oh Dark Thirty!)

My whole budget for the bus is $2,000 a month for maintenance, $4,000 a month for gas, $50,000 a year for maintenance so that $122,000 a year. This is not including the cost of the bus and the tax. (Nonprofits have to pay tax's sometimes on things but they get the money back from the government)

(Added)

I also have a budget of $2,000 a month for insurance.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 01:17:51 PM by Topher » Logged

Chris
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 01:26:46 PM »

Why two maintenance budgets?  If the money is strictly for the bus by itself then $74,000 a year seems like way too much.  Even if you needed new tires and brakes every year you wouldn't spend that much.  The bus will be under warranty for a period of time.  If you run the generator a lot it could need regular oil changes, but that isn't $2,000 a month.  Maybe you're including other costs that most of us wouldn't consider maintenance.

A brand new bus that actually gets used shouldn't have many issues.  Stuff tends to seize up and otherwise not work on buses that sit for long periods.
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 01:30:37 PM »

wow
Not sure how to respond,4 people "touring" the country in a Million dollar coach putting on workshops for teenage inspiring actors and acting like "rock stars" with a $15,555 monthy budget (plus food)

You don't think this is over kill?

I noticed no job openings posted...I'll check back later  Grin

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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2013, 03:36:43 PM »

Hats off Cris. My Dad said years ago, "it doesn't cost but 10% more than you make to go first class." Good luck. Spend it while you got it is what I say. One thing about it ,it doesn't  hurt to make a showing when you arrive! Now if your borrowing money on this quest, I need your bankers number! Grin
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2013, 04:31:17 PM »

Why two maintenance budgets?  If the money is strictly for the bus by itself then $74,000 a year seems like way too much.  Even if you needed new tires and brakes every year you wouldn't spend that much.  The bus will be under warranty for a period of time.  If you run the generator a lot it could need regular oil changes, but that isn't $2,000 a month.  Maybe you're including other costs that most of us wouldn't consider maintenance.

A brand new bus that actually gets used shouldn't have many issues.  Stuff tends to seize up and otherwise not work on buses that sit for long periods.

See that's why I came here. Because I don't know how much I should have budgeted for maintenance. All I have to go on is Big bus, lot of miles and a lot of unknown for me. And trying to google and research there are so many variables. So what would you suggest for a budget?

wow
Not sure how to respond,4 people "touring" the country in a Million dollar coach putting on workshops for teenage inspiring actors and acting like "rock stars" with a $15,555 monthy budget (plus food)

You don't think this is over kill?

I noticed no job openings posted...I'll check back later  Grin

I'm crazy!!! I know this!

And its not teenagers who are on the road its the people who run the workshop that will be on the road. When I looked for a bus I looked for new and over the top and one that will last a LONG time.

The way the program works to make it short. Three people run the workshop and one person drives the bus. So you pull up to the venue and run the program and be their over 30 hours straight, hop into the bus and go to the next location.

The bus I picked out is a "dream bus" for lack of better wording. Want the most and work with what you get. I just want a nice place for the people on the road to be able to not only relax but be able to have fun. I have my eye on a few other buses but the biggest problem with entertainer bus's are (for most of them) you can't drink the water, you can't poop, no shower, no stove, extremely small fridge and tight spaces. When living with people on a bus you want space at times.

P.S.
If in any of my reply's I sound like I'm being mean or something, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to. I am just trying to learn a lot of information before my summer starts. My summer job is M-F 7am to 1am and then most weekends the same. So the more I can learn the better I am for getting all the paper work and stuff in order to start all my filing and the start of my crazy adventure.

Chris
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Chris
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »

Chris, if whoever is paying for this is planning on getting a loan through Wade at Staley Coach they're gonna need at least 25% down and a credit score of 730 plus. Getting financing on buses is ridiculously difficult because you can move and hide a bus.
I have a feeling your dream coach is about to get overtaken by your reality coach.

Rick
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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2013, 05:13:27 PM »

Reality coach?RE skoolie with 2 popup campers mounted on the roof....room for atleast 8 people to sleep,and a fullsize fridge and shower......10k and craigslist....just do it.....don't worry about the glimmer and bedazzle when you roll up.
Wow them with talent and good schooling....then head back to the pimped 2 story skoolie and pop a cold one  Grin
And plenty of budget left for a new tranny....transmission and engine...seems simple
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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2013, 05:23:25 PM »

Chris,

I think the smart thing for you to do would be to lease the bus for the first year.  It may be just as expensive but you'll get experience with the bus and if it ends up not working out the way you thought it would - you are not responsible for continuing to keep the bus running and trying to sell it (if you buy it new you'll never get your money back.)  This will also help you to budget over the first year and see what works best.  You'll get to know the goods/bads and ins/outs of operating a bus.  Even if money is no object, I'd still lease the bus first.

Just my 1/2 pence worth of thought at the end of a long week of work.

-Sean
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« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2013, 05:54:31 PM »

He better worry about his paper work for the IRS before the bus the 501C is getting hard to get nowadays but if all else I know where he can buy 1 lol leasing a decent bus will cost him 10,000 a month plus all the extras that go with it

For 150 grand or less he can buy a late model entertainer in 1999 to 2000 year range leasing would not be good for a 501C non profit  

The 501C can make a profit and pay no taxes under the law it's kinda of miss leading the non profit part plus donations made to the 501C are deductible if you itemize your taxes  

They can pay salaries set by the board or officers that is why they are called non profit the people in charge take all the money lol and pay personal taxes on it

good luck
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 06:25:43 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2013, 07:29:43 PM »

Clifford,

From a guy who spent most of his adult life touring. A star coach like Chris is describing from Hemphill or Senators coaches is 10-12k a WEEK to lease. An entertainer 12 bunk band/crew bus is 7500 to 9 k a week and driver and fuel is extra.
That's just the coach with the full nationwide support of the company and that does include insurance.

That's crazy money right there.

RB
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »

Goes to show you how smart I was I leased the H-40 RV I bought a few years back for 10 grand month on a 6 month lease I thought I was making a killing and I never had to touch it in fact never saw it again, wound up selling to guy that leased it and made a few coins off the deal

 I never asked what Taylor leased his buses for now I understand the $30,000 Rolex  Roll Eyes he wears
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 07:49:11 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2013, 02:46:16 PM »

Hi Chris,
Sounds like you are really doing your homework.  You have hit on a huge wealth of bus info with these guys.  From engines to business they have the experience.   You probably are already thinking of this but just in case,  spend a little time and find a good driver trainer to train all that will be driving the rig.  You have a lot of lives inside and outside to protect.  Safety is a big part of this new venture.  Good luck and it sure sounds like fun!
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 03:37:55 PM »

Just prior to the Tampa RV Super Show, there was a Prevost only show at theTampa Convention Center. There was something like 40 coaches on the floor and the two nicest (in my opinion) was the one you are looking at and a second similar unit.

Show attendance was pretty poor at the time we were there and as a result, my wife and I had the opportunity to spend several hours on board the two coaches and talk with the builders of those coaches (can't for the life of me remember their names). I have to say, the conversion was extremely well done and was very functional for life on the road.

The design elements and use of different materials really makes the coach comfortable and it looks spectacular, in and out.

Good luck with your new venture.

Paul
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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 04:23:59 PM »

It sounds like this bus will get driven 20,000 miles a year give or take.  I don't think I saw an annual mileage number other than monthly fuel expense of $2,000.  At 20,000 miles a year a bus bought new should not need brakes or tires for a number of years.  A bus that moves every few days generally has less issues than a bus that sits for long periods like over winter.

I'll let others chime in too, but I don't see how a bus with 20,000 miles a year will need more than $10,000 a year for maintenance.  Tires and brakes should last several years.  Prevost warranties the bus for the first two years so only wear items will be an issue.  A brand new Prevost is a whole different class of bus than most of us drive.  I would have a bus like that inspected and serviced at a Prevost service center at least once a year.  The cost might be $1,000 to $2,000, but it would be worth it to me at least if I had that class of bus.

If don't know if you're including insurance in the maintenance budget or not.  I have no idea what insurance for a bus like would cost.  I only pay around $600 a year for full coverage, but mine is a personal motorhome and my value is a fraction of what this bus would be insured for.
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« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 04:31:36 PM »

I have a 1995 Dina bus.  I'm posting a rough budget of what I spend for repairs/maintenance for a year:

$600 insurance
$280 registration (plates)
$130 roadside assistance
$800 oil change, chassis inspection and lube, full brake inspection
$1,000 to $2000 repairs as indicated by inspection
$2,000 major wear items rotating through tires, house batteries, and chassis batteries.  (Not all tires replaced same year)

Not everything might be considered maintenance.  Total for a year ends up around $5,800.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 07:27:44 AM »

I think a limo and hotel rooms would be cheaper.  Wink
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2013, 01:26:56 PM »

Chris , I bought a "New" bus several years back using the advice of a seasoned busconversion pro. He helped weed me through what I needed and didn't need in a bus. In the end he helped me adjust my offer to a price that reflected the true market price, saving me $100,000 . pm me if you would like contact info.

 Read up on BusAir and think about how much storage space you need in the bays-if any,  for the 4 of you. Think about height also...12' 6"  or taller. 

 This forum has members who really know their rigs. Paste the bookmark on your toolbar if you really buy a bus..I read it regularly. This is the best forum I know of for busconversions....I learn something new almost every time I log on. You don't need to become a diesel machanic to own and operate a bus , but , you do need to know where all the components of the "conversion" are located so you know who to ask for help...if you can't trouble shoot it yourself. The chasis and drivetrain are basic stuff known at every bus shop in every major city.
 btw , I love my bus and will own it til I can't drive it safely.  My friend flies a G5 ( a $60,000,000) jet with about the same living area as a 45 ft coach... he is jealous of my bus cause I may not be able to cruise at 500mph but I can land on almost any road and have the same level of comfort.
 
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1996 MCI DL3 Custom Coach conversion
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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2013, 04:49:35 PM »

Chris, are you going to use the bus as a dressing room or production office when parked next to the stages?  Be carefull about entrances and exits, a small curb height might be enough to high center a 45' prevost, search the bcm forums, you may not have options to park at stage for free, so there is another layer of costs with rv parks,  some of the parks can't handle a 45', more have spaces for 40', almost all can handle 35', call your stage managers about stage door parking and power source, a good stage electrcian, can get you temporary power, even if its not built in, 30amp will not handle everything, 50amp plug should, your generator, can cause exhaust or noise issues with the local constabulary, some stagehands may have a large lot for you to park, good luck. 501 c3's, are very difficult now, get good advice, include the bus/RV in your business plan and project goal outline submitted to state and IRS, lvmci...
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 05:09:50 PM by lvmci » Logged

MCI5A 8V71 Allison MT643
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« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2013, 05:48:42 PM »

Dirtball,I will take the Gulfstream G-5 over a bus any day  Roll Eyes that is a very nice rig
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Life is short drink the good wine first
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« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2013, 10:17:41 PM »

Thanks for all the help. I think I am going with Seangie advice and Lease (rent) a bus for the first few years. Not that I want to but it will save me the major headaches for a few years.

I will say that I plan on hanging around here with you guys because I like what I see and I must state that I dislike you guys because I now want to go out and buy my own bus, gut it and make it the way I want to.

Thanks a lot for the info.

Chris

P.S. Mod's if you would like you can close this topic if you want.
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Chris
Mansfield, Ohio
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