Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
September 18, 2014, 04:45:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: You will not have to go out in the rain, sleet, hail, or snow to retrieve it.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Could use wheel lug replacement tips  (Read 1207 times)
Gordie Allen
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 225



WWW

Ignore
« on: May 23, 2013, 07:01:19 AM »

I have a couple of stripped wheel lugs  on my 4104.  I'm going to replace all lugs, strip and repaint wheels.  Any tips to make the job easier?
Logged

Augusta, MI
1956 4104
DD 671
akroyaleagle
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 445





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 07:30:58 AM »

If you are replacing the wheel studs, once the hub is off, just knock them out to the inside.

Insert the new studs and pull them in with the nut and spacers as needed.

Make sure the thread is correct. There are right and left threads on most large vehicles.
If they are left, there should be an L stamped on the nut end. Take your old ones in when going after
the new ones so they can be matched.

They should be available at any truck or trailer supply.

Good Luck,
Logged

Joe Laird
'78 Eagle
Huron, South Dakota
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4635


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 07:33:50 AM »

If the wheels are typical Budd wheels, you can probably find them brand new for about $100 or so each.  I wouldn't strip and paint a wheel for $100 personally, but I guess you need to add the aggravation of moving the tires over too.  Got nothing on the studs, sorry.  Some say you can do them with the hubs on the bus, some say take the hubs off and use a press.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Boomer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 656





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 08:20:04 AM »

You can install new studs without removing the hub but if you don't know the condition of your bearings I would pull and inspect/replace.  Then you get new seals and know what shape everything is in.  As Joe said you can pull in the press in type with the lug nut (put a washer behind it while doing this) and a 1" air gun.  New powder coated wheels can be had (chinese) for around 100.00 but beware, they may not balance without too much weight. Alum wheels much better.
Logged

'81 Eagle 15/45
'47 GM PD3751-438
'65 Crown Atomic
Vancouver, WA USA
Sam 4106
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 645





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 08:46:22 AM »

If you are going to the work and expense of changing the studs, consider using longer studs in the event that you will ever want aluminum wheels. I sandblasted and painted the wheels on our GM 4106 using quality primer and paint. The paint didn't last long once it was exposed to road salt. My suggestion would be to install longer studs and aluminum wheels. If you don't want or like aluminum wheels then have your stripped wheels powder coated. YMMV

Good luck, Sam
Logged

1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3510





Ignore
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 02:12:43 PM »

4104s have  both Al and steel rear hubs. Early 4104s had Al rear hubs, don't know about fronts.

Al hubs are thicker and require longer studs. Removal is much more difficult with Al hubs. Lots of penetrating oil and some heating of the hub is necessary, otherwise a tremendous press is needed. Pounding with a sledge will not help and could crack the hub. Been there, won't ever do it again!!

Steel is supposedly easier but I don't have first hand experience with steel.

Al wheels are a pain on the rear because of valve access through those tiny holes, not so bad on the front. I removed two of mine and will remove the other two soon. The polished outsides look great but the insides corrode and look like h....! Also the beads corrode inside and leak. Been there too.

White painted steel wheels are the best and easiest to maintain. If they get dirty I just clean and respray. Don't see any need for stripping unless the paint is awfully thick.

Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
joel_newton
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 33




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2013, 09:25:48 AM »

Just replaced the studs on my front wheels.  PO installed aluminum rims with original studs which are too short.  $106 for twenty studs.  Removed hub and beat first stud out.  Then went to HF and picked up 20T press.  Made arbors out of 1 1/2 pipe.  A little tricky balancing the hub on the pipe keeping it level/square but it was a LOT easier.  A little dab of never seize on the ribs also seems to help inserting the new stud.

If the brake drum won't come off the hub, heat the around drum a couple of inches from hub with a torch.  A good smack with a dead-blow and the drum pops right off.
Logged

Near Santa Rosa, California
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4635


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2013, 12:43:23 PM »

Well, if we are talking about removing brake drums and hitting things with hammers...   Shocked

I just changed the oil seals on my front hubs.  Drums are held on with five slot head countersunk screws, 1/2" X 13 thread.  LGI (last guy in) put them back nice and tight, all nice and rusty as they were, with no anti-seize.  Of 10 screws, one came out.  I tried all the usual tricks, heat, penetrating oil, impact driver, hammer and chisel, finally drilled them out.  First side I drilled them out on the bus, took the drum off and then took the hub off, drilled out the rest of the screws from the hub on my drill press and chased the threads with a tap.  On the second side, having figured out how to take the hub off on the first side I took the hub and the brake drum off as one piece (which is very heavy, rig a support), and put the whole thing on my drill press to drill out the screws...

The first part of the job took around a morning per side.  Changing the seal took around five minutes...  A supposedly relatively easy job took two days...  Oh well, lesson learned.  I figured this little side story was a little relevant since the second step in changing studs is remove brake drum...   Wink

Brian



« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 12:47:52 PM by bevans6 » Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12473




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2013, 01:05:50 PM »

Which model of GM have nuts holding the studs ? or was that some other make whatever it was a PITA
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4635


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2013, 01:51:26 PM »

MCI has nuts on the back holding the studs.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Sam 4106
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 645





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2013, 03:09:00 PM »

Brian,

Why do you have to take the drums off the hub to replace the studs?

Thanks, Sam
Logged

1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4635


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2013, 04:34:01 PM »

You need to take the drums off of an MCI to get at the nuts that hold the studs in to the hub. MCI studs have a large nut on the back side of the stud that pulls it into the hub.  On buses with hubs with pressed in studs, you need to take the drum off to get to the studs themselves.  Step two of any deal involving the studs is take off the drum.  Step one is take off the wheel...

Now, I can imagine finding ways to the the job without taking the drum off, but I don't think it's the easiest way to do the job right.  With pressed in studs you usually can pull the studs in with the reversed wheel nut trick, but I have stretched studs doing that.  I like to press them in from the back with a press.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Sam 4106
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 645





Ignore
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 05:50:34 PM »

Brian,

I'm still confused! You had the hub off the bus to replace the hub seal. If you had wanted to replace the studs with the hub off, why would you need to remove the drum? And, why did you have to remove the drum to replace the hub seal? The only time I replaced a hub seal I didn't have to remove the drum from the hub. Nor did I have to remove the drum from the hub, hub was already off the bus, to replace a stud. I made a jig to bolt to the hub, with the drum still on the hub, and used my cherry picker to hold the assembly for removal. Very easy to align the hub with the axle, for reassembly, using the cherry picker. Another way to handle a hub/drum assembly is with a jig bolted to the lifting plate of a floor jack. I'm too weak to be able to lift and position a hub/drum assembly by hand. I used my floor jack to lift the drum when I had to replace one recently, too.

Thanks, Sam
Logged

1976 MCI-8TA with 8V92 DDEC II and Allison HT740
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12473




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2013, 06:00:43 PM »

I always remove the drum also Sam to replace the studs make it's a lot easier to handle in the press for me why Brian did to replace the seals only he knows but sure he had reason could be he likes to press the seal in and not use the old hammer method  

Fwiw I never drill the hold down slotted screws out I just torch the heads off pop the drum off and spray pb then remove the rest with a pair of vise grips drilling doesn't do much for me
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 06:20:24 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4635


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2013, 03:44:34 AM »

Sam, I guess I don't like to take short cuts when I can do things right, at least the way I think is right.  I could never leave the drum on with all the fixing screws seized because I'd be about guaranteeing that I couldn't service the brakes properly with a drum that couldn't come off.  Now I will admit that if you took the hub and drum off the bus together you could indeed change the hub seal and the studs without taking the drum off the hub.

Clifford, I thought of torching the heads off but the first side I did the whole inside of the brakes was wet with oil so I was afraid of setting it on fire.  The second side I had already proven the drilling out method so I stuck with it.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3510





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2013, 04:53:09 PM »

I got mine loose by soaking with pen oil and tapping a couple of times with a hammer on a large screwdriver (steel all the way through the handle).
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
MCIGenes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 42




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2013, 06:45:00 PM »

      A few years ago I posted the same question on the board. I got some very good advice and some not so good. The best advice I got is when Tom H sent me a link to a web site that sells stud removing equipment. I really liked their equipment but, I did not like the $2700 price tag. So I looked at the photos of their professional model and I sat down with my auto cad and designed an adapter for my 4 ton Porta Power. With $40 of steel and a little time in the shop I had a Stud press that worked good for removing and installing studs on the tag axle of my MC9.
    More recently I wanted to replace studs in my rear hub on the MC5B. I knew the 4 ton may not be heavy enough to push the studs out of the rear hubs so I used the same design and built it for a 10 ton Porta Power. It works great.
      With the brake drum off you just remove the back nut and then press out the stud, with the hub still installed on the axle.  You are not hammering your bearings and damaging your seals. It takes about 5 minutes a stud once you have the drums off.
      I did not notice where you are located before I started this responce, but I will be replacing all my stock front studs with longer studs for the Alcoa Wheels this next month. God willing and the creek don't rise.
I have lots of photos of the press construction and stud replacement if you are interested.   Gene




 
Logged

1975 MC5B   Dew Drop Inn
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!