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Author Topic: Co pilot chair location  (Read 2078 times)
grantgoold
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« on: June 08, 2013, 10:32:41 AM »

For those of you who have installed a co-pilot chair in an MCI 9, can you give me some hints on how you got it done? Things to watch out for........ access points....

Thanks

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 11:24:18 AM »

Don't drill into the air beam when you are looking to bolt the seat down...  I built a steel frame that picked up framing steel on the outside and inside of the air beam.  I think the best way would have been to retain the stock seat tie-down rails and mount from them, but mine were gone.  Many build a floor of varying degrees of removability and trickiness to cover up the stair well so the seat can be farther forward.

Brian
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 11:27:42 AM »

Grant,
I did mine the safest way I could think of, I didnít want the seat to be able to rip out in case of a crash like butterfly bolts can.
So I removed a section of the floor in the area where the chair would go and welded in a ĹĒ plate 2íx2í.
That caught all 4 frame members.
I covered over the plate with ľí then Ĺí plywood, my finished floor is hardwood.
I placed the seat in position, drilled and tapped the bolt holes. I used Ĺí bolts to secure the copilot seat.
Thatís my way.
ED
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 05:14:37 PM »

When you installed, how far forward was the seat and how did you gain access to the bolts from underneath. If you take away the entry panel on the left side as you enter the bus, do you have access to the space below the original floor board?

Grant
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Grant Goold
1984 MCI 9
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 05:30:31 PM »

Grant

I set ours back just enough to have a place for your feet. I welded seat track across the bus to hook into. Not sure it will be as strong as Ed's but figure it is good enough. Not sure you can protect incase of a head-on crash anyhow. The structure of the front of my MC-9 doesnít look like it will take too much. Iím sure it is designed to absorb the crash down low. Itís kind of like wearing a seat belt in an airplane good for bumps but not so good in a crash. I donít think the panel you describe will gain you much access.

John
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 05:32:44 PM by Jriddle » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 06:17:53 PM »

When you installed, how far forward was the seat and how did you gain access to the bolts from underneath. If you take away the entry panel on the left side as you enter the bus, do you have access to the space below the original floor board?

Grant

I'm sure they are all different but my front most bolts for the pedisal are 12" back from that stairwell left panel. No access behind that panel.
You might get access if you can remove the top wheel well outside above the tire.
12" back alows the foot rest on the recliner to clear the dash.

The plate I welded under the floor was drilled and tapped so no need for access, the plate became the nuts.
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 01:50:28 PM »

We removed our stairs and I rebuilt them in a spiral staircase fashion. Here's a pic. We ended up just removing the seat though...she sits on the couch when we're underway and reads a book when she's not making me a sandwich haha! Smiley  Honestly, I don't recommend this. It's a pain...those stairs.

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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 04:53:01 PM »

Whats the Harm in going thru the beam i can see into mine as it is now And i can stick my hand into the beam to thread the washer and nut,just got to make sure i dont hit the bags line!Thats what i plan on doing other then that u have a plywood floor!Wha do think?
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 05:38:46 PM »

Think that the suspension loads for the whole front of the bus are driven up into the air beams, and if they are rotten what is holding the bus up?  You can plate the beams and put different air springs in, but at the end of the day the loads have to transfer into the bus chassis structure through the air beams and if they have gone missing due to rust worm, what is holding the bus up?

Brian
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 05:57:23 PM »

Thanks for all the input and pictures! I was just thinking about all the options and then looked at my brand new leather captain chairs and noticed the VERY small (DOT Approved) bolts that hold the seat to the pedestal. It almost seems like six or eight large wood screws into two inches of flooring/plywood would be stronger than the four little bolts holding the seats down?

I like the idea of finding the original seat track and securing the new pedestal to that track. I hope I can find the track again now that I buried the sucker many moons ago! Cry

Thanks again!

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 05:59:13 PM »

Yup you don't want to drill into an air beam. Cry I have firsthand experience when I drilled into one in the back. It wasn't much fun welding back up as there was another layer of metal I drilled through before I dilled into the beam. I had to cut an access hole to weld up beam.

John
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John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 06:25:41 PM »

If I air up the bus, and block appropriately, is there space enough between the air beam and the wood floor to get four bolts in place. Obviously, I would only want to do this once? Anybody got pictures of when they took out their floor and could see the air beam below?  Now my mind is racing thinking that perhaps I could get enough space to make this work?

Ideas and opinions!

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 06:35:21 PM »

Best I can do.
 I am out of country now but will be back next week I will work on mirror deal then.

John
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 06:38:23 PM by Jriddle » Logged

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John Riddle
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grantgoold
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 07:50:41 PM »

John, thanks for the picture. I would assume that the two large tracks running vertical in the picture were the attachment points for the original bus seat track? I seem to remember the passenger side seat attached to the outside wall and the first track moving into the middle of the bus and the second seat attached to the second track? If so, a simple measurement would give me a nice idea of the location of the tracks.

Thanks again.

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 08:13:08 PM »

Grant
I can't measure for you as mine is covered over same as yours Sad In the picture the tract that has grinding marks is where the seat rail was.

Good Luck

John
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 08:17:16 PM by Jriddle » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2013, 03:29:26 PM »

This pic prob doesn't help?Huh Maybe??? Wife is removing the seat rails....

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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2013, 04:14:43 PM »

Grant, the anchor belt should be attached to the seat belt.  The anchor belt should be afixed to some very sound structure.  So in a severe decel scenario the anchor belt and seat belt holds you and the seat both to the bus, not just you to the seat.  Use grade 8 bolts.

A few years ago a bus driver in my area hit a trailer laying in the middle of his lane at night.  The driver (still strapped in) and seat both were ejected through the windshield and flew for over 100 feet.  It was an MC9.  Everything pulled right out of the floor.  Thought about that many times.  HTH
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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2013, 04:35:07 PM »

Boomer, there is nothing about flying 100 ft attached to my bus seat and already having ejected through the front window that sounds good! Kiss

I have pedestals that are very solid and I will maximize securing the pedestals to the floor. Ironically, the seats themselves are bolted to the electric track mechanism with four bolts that are 3/16 at best. No real way to modify the seat frame to add more connection just thought about all the work to secure the pedestal only to have some rather wimpy bolts actually secure the seat. I too have seen many examples of people still in seats that are not longer inside the vehicle as intended.

Thanks

Grant
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Grant Goold
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2013, 05:32:48 PM »

I recently was involved in a headon with a drunk driver.  Both front seats ripped loose. Mine was factory mounted, hers wasn't.

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« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2013, 06:14:57 PM »

I was shocked to see how the drivers seat is mounted in a 2002 H model Prevost not much there holding the seat looks like it would go through windshield easy if one had a head on  

The co-pilot seat has 4 -1/2 in bolts that go through the plywood floor with a 3/8 thick plate 16x16 on the bottom and the seat belts are anchored to metal brace and it's not much  

I am guessing it would be impossible for the seat to pull a 16 inch square through the double layer of plywood and I could be wrong but I don't see that happening with the plate on the bottom with 4 grade 8- 1/2 inch bolts with a 150,000 lbs rating 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 06:36:07 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2013, 07:24:14 PM »

I am also thinking that the original seats where secured via the OEM track and they seem to stay put unless the frame bends.  As a result, I am thinking about finding the buried OEM track and mounting the base plate to the track using grade 8 bolts engineered to fit the track. I will also include at least four large lag bolts to go through nearly 1.5 inches of marine grade plywood.  I am also thinking that with the seat belt systems in place properly that if your body was involved in enough kinetic energy to rip the pedestal base out of the floor my guess would be my body would not survive.

Thoughts?

Grant
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Grant Goold
1984 MCI 9
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2013, 07:58:42 PM »

I am also thinking that the original seats where secured via the OEM track and they seem to stay put unless the frame bends.  As a result, I am thinking about finding the buried OEM track and mounting the base plate to the track using grade 8 bolts engineered to fit the track. I will also include at least four large lag bolts to go through nearly 1.5 inches of marine grade plywood.  I am also thinking that with the seat belt systems in place properly that if your body was involved in enough kinetic energy to rip the pedestal base out of the floor my guess would be my body would not survive.

Thoughts?

Grant

Kind of what I was getting at in my post earlier. We can only do what we think will work. When things are real bad we may need help from a higher power to survive. I have seen S&S couches with seat belts installed with only wood screws holding it to the floor. Not sure that would be good in the event of a real bad crash. I realize we arenít all invincible but I hope I drive defensibly enough to HELP protect me from harm.

John
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John Riddle
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2013, 10:29:26 PM »

Wife working on the bus Grin

Priceless!  Keeper for sure!

Grant
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Grant Goold
1984 MCI 9
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2013, 05:40:30 PM »

Good day today on installing the co-pilot or bosses chair! First, we determined that the easiest way to secure the seats was to mount the pedestal to the original seat brackets. I made some test bolts and once they seem to work, replaced the first set with grade 8 bolts. As you can see, I was able to find the original track made access holes just big enough to allow for easy installation and removal. The six way electric pedestals cost me $20.00 bucks and about one hour clean up and rehab on both.  I needed to fab some new seat contact points as the leather seats are 27 inches wide!  I placed a small rubber gasket between the pedestal base and the floor. Once mounted I used a car battery to ensure the boss was happy with location, swivel and so forth.  Not bad for a mornings work!

Tomorrow it looks like I need to build a custom riser for the drivers side. Want to make sure I can move the seat back and forth. 27 inch wide seats make for a tight fit on the drivers side.

Thanks for all the ideas and opinions. Anybody need the original seat and pedestal for an MCI?

Grant
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 05:44:25 PM by grantgoold » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2013, 04:52:57 PM »

The passenger seat that came with the bus when i got it ,was a seat sam caylor put in many buses as he told me was a movie theater seat,it folded up when not in use an even rocked ,i removed that and put a real seat in!
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