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Author Topic: Bus crash in Indianapolis today.  (Read 1926 times)
gumpy
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« on: July 27, 2013, 05:08:54 PM »

Driver exited the interstate at a high rate of speed, attempted to negotiate a 90 degree left hand turn, hit a concrete barrier and overturned, killing 3 of the passengers,
reported to be teens returning from a church camp. Driver told witnesses his brakes failed.

This is possibly going to turn out to be lack of and/or improper maintenance on a church owned bus.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/27/3-killed-in-indianapolis-bus-crash-officials-say/

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Craig Shepard
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John316
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 07:20:50 PM »

I just saw that. Nasty wreck for sure. Great reminder, if it is a maintenance issue, for all of us to stay current.

Prayers for all involved!

John
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jackhartjr
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 04:06:41 AM »

Not trying to fan the fire here, and I hate the loss of life and injuries and all of the aftermath!
However, the driver 'SAID' the brakes failed. Sort of like the truck driver going around a curve too fast, ALWAYS says, "the load shifted'!
The brakes were good the last time he stopped!
Jack
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Jack Hart, CDS
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Jon
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 04:34:07 AM »

Our brakes suck. Mother Nature is just not going to allow vehicles that weigh what our coaches do slow down as fast as the average car. If a non-professional driver was behind the wheel the problem with poor braking is likely to increase significantly because driving the bus is not his day job and sitting higher than a car the illusion of how fast he is going is going to be less than actual.

Then combine that with the fact few drivers, including professionals, ever do a full DOT safety check, the coach is probably not getting daily inspections such as checking hub seal leaks, and the potential risk goes up significantly.

How many of us can honestly say before we leave on a trip we have done a brake check, know we don't have a hub seal leak, know the slack adjusters have been adjusted or the adjusters are working, and know we don't have oil coated pads or shoes or cracked drums or discs?

I am sure I piss a lot of people off if they follow me off the interstate, but those big yellow signs on the ramp that say 25 or 35 have kept me safe. The people behind me get all bent out of shape however because they think that is too slow. Drive safe out there. They really are out to get us.
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Jon

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Knoxville, TN
luvrbus
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 06:11:44 AM »

I agree with Jon I take my time when exiting off a freeway one thing you are dealing with a vehicle that is top heavy to begin with and setting on air bags they lean they flip at a high rate of speed on a curve

 My buddy at Arrow Stage trains his drivers to make all curves 15 mph less than the posted speed for the passengers safety not a bad idea for a RV either IMO 

I think all people that drive a bus with the anti lock brakes need some special training those are great brakes but will scare the hell out of you if one does not know what to expect
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 06:22:46 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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Jeremy
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 06:38:44 AM »

There was a coach crash in very similar circumstances (going too fast around corner when leaving a motorway) a few years ago here - also three people killed as it happens:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1089630/National-Express-driver-crashed-killed-passengers-making-safety-announcement-jailed-years.html




And I expect the Spanish train crash this week (80 dead and counting) will have had some coverage on US news - another case of simply going around a corner too fast (which it should be impossible to do in a modern train, frankly)


Spain Train Crash: CCTV Footage | Tren Descarrila en Santiago de Compostela: Camara de Seguridad



(And from just yesterday, yet another double-decker bus meets a low bridge):

Roof ripped off double decker bus in railway bridge crash



Jeremy
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 08:43:31 AM »

A church or sports team should not own and operate a bus. They should charter from professional bus companies and pass the liability on to them.

JC
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JC
Invermere, BC
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 08:54:06 AM »

I always take ramps and highway curves at the posted speed or less.  If it upsets someone behind me so be it.  There is one freeway curve locally were we went too fast around it a few times until we figured it out.  There are multi-lane right and left exits at that curve and the 50 MPH sign is tiny and you would think it it is for one of the exits.  We know now that the sign is for the main freeway lanes.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Dave5Cs
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2013, 12:16:50 PM »

2 signs I want to put on our bus.

1= Feel free to Go around me!...
2= Hello there is another Lane, feel free to take it!...

Dave5Cs
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wg4t50
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 01:26:56 PM »

Generally, church bus operations have delayed service, repairs and drivers are the current volunteer, non CDL, good ole boys.  Scary at least, got into part of this when I cornered a state police 1st Sgt. When asking about theCDL  and private coach use, farm use and church came up in the reading.
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MCI7 20+ Yrs
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expressbus
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 01:48:50 PM »

I don't know if any of you have noticed it but there appears to be a new approach to signing advisory speed plaques for tight off ramps. I have seen some postings in NC on US routes where there is an advisory speed plaque posted in advance of the exit saying 35 MPH. Then when you get TO the ramp there is an advisory speed plaque posted at 25 MPH for the ramp. Personally, I would never agree to that kind of signing since trees and bushes are allowed to grow up between the 35 and  25 signs that obscure the slower speed sign. I debated this with the DOT but did not prevail. If you are every going southbound on US #1 approaching US #401 in Sanford, Lee County, be advised that 25 is the preferred speed for making that exit. There are numerous times in commuting to Raleigh that I have seen big rig foot prints going straight off the ramp instead of continuing into a rollover. I agree with Jon and Luvrbus, slower is better when exiting a controlled access highway via a loop ramp, especially an old route from the 1950's into the late 1960's.

Another design feature to watch out for is old either on or off ramps that use a spiral curve as a design feature of the ramp. This is usually found where the DOT cheaped out in order to use less right of way. What a spiral curve is is a curve that has more than one radius, usually starting at the exiting roadway as a larger radius that reduces in radius as it approaches the entering roadway before connecting to it. PA #3 westbound to I-476 Southbound is one example. If you are not very careful you will begin to feel the curbside of the bus "lifting" while the driver's side digs in as more wheel is applied to keep from running off the road. Easy on the brake application too, that can also create a problem situation. As casual RV operators we should never find ourselves in these compromised conditions having to make a snap decision.
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Will Garner, Jr
Southern Pines, NC
1991 Prevost Conversion by Country Coach
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 03:56:10 PM »

2 signs I want to put on our bus.

1= Feel free to Go around me!...
2= Hello there is another Lane, feel free to take it!...

Dave5Cs

I had thought of making up a plate that read " I may be slow, but I am ahead of you"....LOL
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Mike and Lori
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 05:09:01 PM »

Another coach crash today in Italy; first reports said 7 dead, then 24, now "at least 36":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23486086


Jeremy
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2013, 04:39:10 AM »

I am guessing that they will find a lack of upkeep on the bus, with the main cause that he just took the exit too fast. When I am driving our bus, I always observe and follow the suggested speeds. However, I know most exit styles and have general guidelines I follow, even if I don't see the suggested speed. Buses simply don't have the stopping ability that other vehicles do. As my dad always said that it is better to be going slower, wishing you were going faster, then going faster wishing you were going slower.

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2013, 05:31:31 AM »

Some things are beyond a drivers control and some are here in the valley last night they closed 1-40 for about a 20 mile stretch because water sweep a tour bus of the road no one was hurt but that had to be scary enough water with force to move a 50,000# bus off the road that could have been bad 

 There are conflicting reports on that accident where he drove through a wash or not if he did the law we have here "The Dumb Motorist Law" he will pay a price  Roll Eyes  
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 05:49:44 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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