Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
November 27, 2014, 01:34:21 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription:  It will not get lost in the mail.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Priming bare aluminum questions  (Read 2525 times)
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 822




Ignore
« on: August 04, 2013, 05:52:54 PM »

I'm now in the middle of stripping my aluminum roof down to bare metal  -  some of the original paint was flaking off, so I'm not taking any chances with the remainder that may or may not be secure.   (Talk about tedious  - on a step ladder or on my knees on the roof for hours in the hot sun, scraping it off with a hot air gun inch by inch.   I cannot use chemical strippers or blasting, because I'm doing this in the storage yard next to other RVs.   Oh yes, don't forget the millions of rivets also there.   I think it's character-building . . .)

I have some questions about prepping and priming.   After reading various threads here and elsewhere I'm more confused than ever!   Ideally I would use Metalprep 79 to etch the bare aluminum, then maybe Alodine, then prime and top coat, but phosphoric acid etchers need to be washed off after a few minutes  -  I cannot wash off the acid because the sides of the bus won't be stripped to bare metal and I don't want acid running down the good paint there.   It's the same story with Alodine  -  it also has to be washed off after application.   If I use a self-etching primer it should work, but Eastwood's isn't available for sale in California in gallons, only in quarts and aerosols;  Rustoleum is available everywhere but is suspiciously cheap compared to SEM, but again they are only available in spray cans, not much use for doing 350 sq.ft.

If I thoroughly sand or wire-brush the aluminum to give it a rough surface, will that be enough for the eventual Rustoleum Professional primer and enamel that I'll roll on, or do I absolutely have to etch it first?   Are there any other self-etching primers available in CA by the gallon that I can roll or brush on?   Senik Paint here wasn't much help for me, and I can't tell if Aircraft Spruce has anything suitable.   Whatever I do has to be the last time I'll ever paint this darn roof!   I just don't seem to have many options for my particular circumstances.

Thanks, John
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
Utahclaimjumper
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 847




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 06:14:36 PM »

 Etching and alodine is really old school and labor intensive ,please don't use a "WIRE" brush on aluminum, keep steel away from alloy. Strip as needed to remove any loose paint, you should be able to use the stripper and scrape method even close to other RVs if reasonably careful.. Prep for paint using a self etching urethane primer, follow with a urethane top coat of your choice, don't use the "base coat clear coat" method on a roof application, the clear will peel in short order on a roof.>>>Dan (30 year A/P-IA)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 10:47:59 AM by Utahclaimjumper » Logged

Utahclaimjumper 
 EX 4106 (presently SOB)
Cedar City, Ut.
 72 VW Baja towed
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 822




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 07:49:21 PM »

please don't use a "WIRE" brush on aluminum, keep steel away from alloy. .>>>Dan (30 year A/P-IA)
I'm using some brass wire wheels that work pretty well to get paint off the million rivet heads, so no worries there about steel not playing well with aluminum.

Can I roll those urethane primer and top coats on, or do they have to be sprayed?   Rolling is my only practical way to do it  -  I don't think spraying is kosher in a storage yard!   Appearance is not a priority  -  if it looks good at 50 feet or 50 MPH I'll be chuffed, and anyway the roof's going to have solar panels and a catwalk over most of it when I'm done.   I'll also mix the Hy-Tech ceramic additive into the top coat(s) for another few degrees of insulation.

Thanks, John
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6904





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 09:27:09 PM »

Here in California, we have limited selection of primers. A couple years ago I replaced one of my panels on the bus (had a close encounter). After sanding the bare aluminum with 320, used a water based primer that I rolled on. Then used regular sanding primer over that, then Dupont 5000 single stage urethane paint. So far so good. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Utahclaimjumper
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 847




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 10:51:54 AM »

 In your situation I would say the "roll & tip" method would work well, urethane does not care, I would thin it more for that method than for spray.>>>Dan
Logged

Utahclaimjumper 
 EX 4106 (presently SOB)
Cedar City, Ut.
 72 VW Baja towed
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 822




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 12:36:02 PM »

Are there any readily-available brands of urethane primer and topcoat you would recommend?   Bear in mind that California outlaws some of the good stuff available elsewhere, and that I would prefer to buy a brand that's available from multiple suppliers.   Rustoleum makes no mention that their Professional line is urethane, and Sherwin-Williams urethane enamel does not seem to have a matching self-etching primer.   How important is it to match primer and top coat, for example could I use Rustoleum self-etching primer with S-W urethane topcoat, or would bad things happen?   When I asked the local S-W store about what I'm needing I just got frog-like expressions from the sales dudes there  -  I guess I need to know exactly what I want if I order something from them!

Sorry for all these questions  -  I'm a complete newbie when it comes to paint, so I will happily take the advice of those who know.

Many thanks, John
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
Utahclaimjumper
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 847




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 04:23:52 PM »

 Go to an auto body paint supplier, they are the real deal.>>>Dan (But when buying, use commercial type urethane, not the automotive (more expensive)type. The only difference is color choices, sometimes called "fleet colors"
Logged

Utahclaimjumper 
 EX 4106 (presently SOB)
Cedar City, Ut.
 72 VW Baja towed
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12919




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 04:45:10 PM »

Martin/Senour has a good "Green " paint system that is approved for the holy land of CA  a plus is it is easy to use for the beginner
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 05:03:37 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1389


Scott & Heather


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2013, 11:12:17 AM »

Use Alumaprep on it. Seriously. Go to a PPG store and ask for an etching primer for the aluminum. We did and our paint is bomb proof.
Logged

Scott & Heather
1984 MCI9 6V92-turbo with 9 inch roof raise & conversion in progress.
http://www.scottmichaelbennett.com/p/our-bus.html
˙ǝɯoɔlǝʍ suoıʇɐuop ˙snq ʍǝu ɐ pǝǝu ʎlqɐqoɹd ll,ǝʍ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 822




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 07:58:18 PM »

Sorry to keep asking newbie questions about this, but I found something yesterday that may work well, and I just want to hear the collective wisdom of the paint-savvy folk here before I start:

McFadden-Dale Industrial Hardware in Santa Ana CA (now that's a real nuts 'n bolts store, and I'm there every week buying everything I need) has gallon cans of Mar-Hyde 5113 self-etching pre-treatment primer.   It must be used together with a normal primer  -  you can't topcoat directly over it.   My plan is to sand and wire-brush the whole roof (it's now completely stripped down to bare aluminum), wipe it with acetone and tack cloths, roll on the Mar-Hyde, then roll on Rustoleum Professional 242259 oil-modified alkyd clean metal primer that's also in stock there.   I'll then roll on two coats of Rustoleum Professional 242256 oil-based white alkyd enamel with the Hy-Tech ceramic insulation added into it, and a possible thin third coat without ceramic to smooth the final surface.   I had thought of using Rustoleum's 8781402 aluminum primer straight on the metal, but nobody here has it or can get it.   Using the Mar-Hyde is more expensive, but if it helps the paint's adhesion even slightly then I'll do it  -  there's no darn way I ever want to repaint my roof again!

Mar-Hyde's info doesn't say anything about rolling it on (it's intended for spraying, but I can't do that in the RV yard)  -  I see no reason I can't roll it if it's a cool day.   It only needs a thin coat, then the Rustoleum primer will be higher-build.   Can anyone think of any reason this won't work  -  will the Rustoleum primer be OK on top of the Mar-Hyde?   Are there any possible chemical incompatibilities that could cause bubbling or peeling later?

Thanks, John      
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 08:11:36 PM by Iceni John » Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
RJ
Former Giant Greenbrier Owner
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2858





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 12:54:56 AM »

John -

Clifford (lvrbus) is just across the Colorado River and slightly north of Needles (I-40) in AZ.  Wonder if you could shuttle your coach over there and get some of the "good stuff" the Californication Environmental Wackos won't let us have. . .  Just thinkin'

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Logged

RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 Now
Fresno CA
Iceni John
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 822




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 08:14:29 AM »

John -

Clifford (lvrbus) is just across the Colorado River and slightly north of Needles (I-40) in AZ.  Wonder if you could shuttle your coach over there and get some of the "good stuff" the Californication Environmental Wackos won't let us have. . .  Just thinkin'

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
Yup, that thought had ocurred to me, making a quick jaunt to AZ or NV or even MX to get the roof repainted.   However, at this point I've done the worst of it, with only the easy(ish) painting part left to do.   I just slightly neurotic about making sure I've done the best possible prepping job before I start the actiual painting, and that's maybe something where "professional" painters (at least, those I could afford!) could possibly take shortcuts if I wasn't scrutinizing their every move.

I want to get this darn roof done by the end of this month, then I can begin the fun stuff building the roof walkway and support frames for my solar panels.   Maybe I'll be so paint-focused that I'll instead end up repainting the whole bus?   My friends have been bugging me for so long about "that big yellow bus of yours", so a change of color is long-overdue!

John
Logged

1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
Behind the Orange Curtain, SoCal.
Homegrowndiesel
Vegetable oil, Rudolf Diesel's original fuel
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 190


73-05 Eagle




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 10:24:04 AM »

Spi epoxy, after sanding with 80 grit paper. use the metal prep wash, not acetone. you can paint over it within 7 days without sanding. Here is a link to the site. check the forum for other good advice. the epoxy adheres better than anything, and the next coat bonds chemically. They also sell single stage paint in white, red, or black. This is the BEST paint you can buy, at the best price. http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
Logged

Aerodynamic Eagle & MCI 102a3
Charles in SC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 308




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 07:47:00 PM »

After reading this thread I am wondering if you have thought about what etching means. To me it means creating small rough areas that the paint can grip to. Have you thought about roughing it up with Scotch Bright then maybe priming with Zinc Oxide. Zinc Oxide is available from Aircraft Spruce and covers very well.
Logged

S8M 5303 built in 1969, converted in 2000
Brassman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 08:09:36 PM »

My search gets zinc chromate as the primer, not zinc oxide.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!