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Author Topic: Anyone make muffler with side inlet and end outlet on same end?  (Read 2277 times)
belfert
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« on: August 31, 2013, 07:05:15 AM »

I am going to need a new muffler and tail pipe before long.  My muffler has a side inlet and an end outlet both on the same end of the muffler.  I have not been able to find a Nelson or Donaldson muffler that has a side inlet and end outlet on the same end of the muffler.  I can get an exact replacement from MCI, but the cost is over $1,000.

Has anybody seen a muffler like this?  I have attached a PDF showing a diagram of my exhaust.  The muffler looks round in the diagram, but it is actually oval.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 07:17:22 AM »

Google Walker muffler and look through there catalog.

They will have it or something close.

Cliff
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luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 07:31:59 AM »

That is a Donaldson style five they can be bought with the inlet and outlet about in any configuration 
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 07:43:29 AM »

That is a Donaldson style five they can be bought with the inlet and outlet about in any configuration 

I looked through all the style 5 mufflers in Donaldson's catalog.  They all appeared to have the outlet and inlet on opposite ends, but maybe I wasn't reading the catalog right.  I also couldn't figure out how to tell if a muffler is round or oval.

I guess I need to find a shop that specializes in heavy duty exhaust to get more help.  There is a really good muffler shop just down the street, but they do very little heavy duty stuff.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2013, 08:13:05 AM »

Have you tried United Muffler even if they custom build one for you it won't be anywhere close to a 1000 bucks 
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belfert
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 08:13:59 AM »

Thanks for the suggestion on Walker.  I hadn't looked at their website.  I think I found the right one!  All of the measurements seem to match up.  Walker has pictures of the mufflers plus they have a online tool to select the right muffler.  The one that looks like it will work is part 21070.  

It looks like I can get this muffler for around $200 versus $1000+ from MCI.  NAPA even has it in their catalog, but they have to have it shipped from the manufacturer.  I also tried Catco/Fleetpride, but the parts guy there actually recommended ordering it online since they would have to order it in and their price would be high.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 08:20:43 AM »

Be careful and make sure the flow is right series 60 are picky when it come to flow if you change the hp to 400 like you are speaking about doing  maybe in the future  you will need to go from the 2300 CFM on the bus now to 2500 CFM something to think about for the future
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 08:31:41 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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belfert
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 08:36:28 AM »

I found what appears to be the same part from Donaldson and they have a engine application guide.  They list the muffler under the Series 50, but not under the Series 60.  I should probably call Walker on Tuesday to see if it would work with the Series 60.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 08:51:47 AM »

I used an oval (10x15) Donaldson with 5" opening on the same end. It is only 21" long. My guess is that original muffler is longer then that. All you have to do is to run the original pipe to a 90 degree then extend the outlet a bit to match. This muffler is turbo rated and puts out a nice tone. If I remember correctly, it was less then $200. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2013, 09:07:44 AM »

A 350 hp series 50 takes a 2055 CFM muffler fwiw they can drop depending on HP to 1575 CFM
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2013, 09:11:55 AM »

Brian, look at the Donaldson M120131 it is a 10X15X26 5" in and out on the same end and as Tom said put a 90 in it and mate it to you turbo down pipe.

Don
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2013, 09:25:34 AM »

If his like most Dina's he is very limited on choices
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belfert
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 12:25:17 PM »

I suspect what Tom and Don are suggesting could work because the mufflers are shorter.  However, the Walker muffler I found looks like it could be an exact replacement.  Donaldson used to have a muffler that seems to cross reference to the Walker part number, but the number is no longer in the Donaldson catalog.  Dina may have just have picked a standard muffler out of a catalog to reduce their costs.

If I didn't have a tire to replace I might just go ahead and order the Walker muffler after verifying it will work with a Series 60.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2013, 12:47:47 AM »

Since you have a turbo engine, and me being a gear head, I would use a resonator instead of the restrictive muffler, reasons, less $$ AND less heat in engine compartment AND noticeable increase in hp with little change in noise, having the turbo is also a muffler. The biggie for me is the more power.

Need to be aware, some folks can detect a 50 hp increase and some would not know a 300 hp increase.   Shocked Shocked
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2013, 06:12:44 AM »

Unlike the 2 strokes with a turbo 60 series are loud at the exhaust even with a muffler Brian may not like the noise with only a resonator they do make a sweet sounding 8v71 N/A 2 stroke on a Eagle with the dual pipes a sweet sound indeed  

2 places the 60 series doesn't even stand a chance against the old 2 strokes is the smooth idle and the sound Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 06:18:54 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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TomC
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2013, 07:06:27 AM »

This is the whole point both Don Fairchild and I have, the M120131 muffler is a low resistance turbo rated muffler. When I bought it, I looked inside. It only has one baffle between the two sides. I know it flows enough to facilitate up to a 460hp 3406B Caterpillar-I'm sure the Series 60 won't be any different. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2013, 07:59:42 AM »

With a CFM rating of 2378 MR and 2913 HR with no bends that muffler won't work on a 460 hp Cat 3406b they need 2694cfm  min the 12L series 60 require 2877 cfm min  

I see it all time people with the wrong mufflers their engine temp has gone up and the power and mileage down but we all do it different my only advice is buy the right muffler and you do that by asking the manufacture
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 08:03:27 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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belfert
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2013, 08:54:47 AM »

With a CFM rating of 2378 MR and 2913 HR with no bends that muffler won't work on a 460 hp Cat 3406b they need 2694cfm  min the 12L series 60 require 2877 cfm min  

I see it all time people with the wrong mufflers their engine temp has gone up and the power and mileage down but we all do it different my only advice is buy the right muffler and you do that by asking the manufacture

Which manufacturer?  Coach or engine?  I'm confused.  You recommended earlier to contact United Muffler about a custom muffler because it would cheaper than paying MCI $1000, and now you say to go to the manufacturer.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2013, 09:08:21 AM »

Back to why I prefer the resonator, 5" in & 5" out, straight pipe no restriction at all & it works great on the 8V-92 in the MCI with 2 90 elbows & band clamps  Grin
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luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2013, 09:12:52 AM »

It's not hard to under stand ask the manufacturer of your engine or look it up for the CFM rating


 If you buy from United they will have the specs on file for the engine hp and bus and can build a muffler to that spec they are in the muffler business

 It's about the only place left to get a muffler for the drivers side on a Eagle with the indent to clear the double oil cooler on a 8v71 but do whatever flips your switch it make no difference to me
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 09:18:04 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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belfert
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2013, 09:19:45 AM »

It's not hard to under stand ask the manufacturer of your engine or look it up for the CFM rating

Your other post didn't say if you were referring to the engine manufacturer or coach manufacturer.  I figured you meant the engine manufacturer.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2013, 02:58:25 PM »

Your other post didn't say if you were referring to the engine manufacturer or coach manufacturer. 

Brian -

Clifford is often good at obfuscation!

 Grin
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RJ Long
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2013, 03:18:19 PM »

One of the best at it RJ lol you are the only one besides my wife I ever heard use the word "obfuscation", it has it advantages sometimes I told David Glass of Walmart fame where he could go and it took him 3 days to figure out where I told him to go  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 03:47:51 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2013, 10:26:09 PM »

Using Donaldson's formula to figure exhaust flow for proper muffler sizing, a 14 liter engine, whether it be a Cummins N14, 14 liter Series 60 works out to be 1560cfm-the 14.6 liter Caterpillar works out to be 1627cfm. The muffler that both Don Fairchild and I (and the one I'm using in my bus) is the Donaldson 5" at the same end and part number M120131. This muffler has a cfm rating at 1" restriction of 1682cfm; at 2" restriction 2378cfm; at 3" restriction 2913cfm. According to all of Donaldson's formulas, this muffler will work just fine. It will be the muffler I'm using on my 3406B truck conversion. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2013, 05:52:18 AM »

Why not just use the Donaldson Chart from the book it saves all the figuring it has the intake cfm,hp ratings ,exhaust temps and flow  
Why does some Prevost use a 3300 cfm muffler(1400 bucks) with the 14L DD, but we all have a different opinions,myself I am going with the Donaldson figures from the book they list every diesel engine made

They make it easy they even figure the length,size, and bends in the systems all done for you but they could be wrong ? fwiw my 3406B manual and you have different numbers as Donaldson prints in the book "for exact requirements check with the engine manufacture" good advice

 For those looking for the formula some use this one, exhaust temp + 460 degrees X intake flow = exhaust flow, Donaldson lists all the info by engine model,rpms, exhaust temp,and hp fwiw

good luck  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 06:42:44 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2013, 07:12:05 AM »

Hi Brian, I sent you an email about your muffler.

Dick
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2013, 09:46:56 AM »

I did some research and figured this all out after calling Walker today.  My muffler is actually 12"x15" not 10"x15" as I originally thought.  I found a different Walker muffler number 21084 that is the same dimensions as the 21070 except 12" instead of 10".  The problem is Walker has discontinued the 21084.

The interesting thing is I searched for Walker 21084 on Ebay and found a Nelson 86757M that crosses to the the Walker 21084.  Also, the Ebay listing says it crosses to a UNIVERSAL COACH PARTS™ 394202247 which is the MCI part number for the Dina muffler.  It looks like I found the exact replacement muffler for about 40% of what MCI wants for it.  I'm not sure if Nelson is going to discontinue this like Walker did.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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