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Author Topic: More torque issues at the tire shop  (Read 4892 times)
belfert
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« on: September 07, 2013, 04:22:22 PM »

I got my bad tire replaced this morning.  I specifically asked about if they hand torqued the lug nuts.  They said they hand torqued them so I thought that was good.

After sitting inside for a while I went out to see how things were going.  One of the guys was checking the torque with a torque wrench.  The stupid thing is I realized they used the 1" impact to install the lug nuts!  Is there even a point of checking the torque if you're going to install them with a 1" impact?  They were most likely all over torqued by the impact.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 04:34:35 PM »

All depends where he had the impact set and how long he hammered,a good tire guy with a adjustable 1 inch impact can put those on the money if he was using a H/F 1in impact they may not have been tight enough
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bevans6
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 04:49:32 PM »

If I set my 1" impact gun at low, it spins the nut on and stops at 300 ft lbs or so, particularly if you don't let it hammer more than once.  If you are worried just loosen a few off and torque them again, paying attention to how hard they are to loosen.

Brian
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 04:51:51 PM »

If you do them yourself you never have to worry about it again.....you will know it was done right!
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belfert
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 05:10:28 PM »

Can a good tire man control a 1" impact well enough not to excessively torque the nuts?  I'm not really concerned about them being too tight.  I guess my definition of torquing the nuts by hand and their definition were different.  I thought they would use the torque wrench for the final tightening.

I actually brought my Tireman torque wrench and socket with me to the shop, but they said they would hand torque them so I didn't ask if I could torque the nuts myself.  I don't have the tools or talent to mount my own tire so I have the shop do it.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 05:14:56 PM »

If I set my 1" impact gun at low, it spins the nut on and stops at 300 ft lbs or so, particularly if you don't let it hammer more than once.  If you are worried just loosen a few off and torque them again, paying attention to how hard they are to loosen.

Isn't the damage done once they are overtightened?  I have nothing at home to loosen the lug nuts.  I have a 3/4" impact, but my compressor apparently doesn't supply enough air as it wouldn't loosen a lug nut when I tried last week.  I have been looking at one of those torque multipliers designed for removing lug nuts, but I haven't ordered one yet.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 05:25:18 PM »

Sure he can I am not even a tire man and I can do it I check only 1 lug against the impact with the Proto torque wrench then I know the setting and how many hits it take to reach the desired torque it's not a rocket science  

With 80 lug nuts on your bus and the same with my X Eagle a person would need to be nuts to tighten and check each one with a torque wrench IMO
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lostagain
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 06:54:43 PM »

Luvrbus: how often does a bus nut have to tighten the nuts on all 10 wheels at once on the same day?

I have too many times seen tire shops put the nuts on with the 1" gun, then go around with the torque wrench set at 500 lbs and go click, click, and say they are torqued, when in fact they might have been tightened to 600 lbs or more, and the torque wrench for sure is going to go click, click. And when asked about it, say that they are doubled checking that they are tight enough. Sure they are: they are too tight!

I do my own, one at a time, and they are done right.

JC

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JC
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 07:19:35 PM »

Bryan
For most of the small air compressors, the problem is not enough reserve air to do the job of removing the lug nut if the wrench can produce the necessary torque. I have a porter pancake compressor and learned from practice that was the problem for my compressor. I use a 3/4 air wrench from HF with 500 ft pounds torque. I got a 20 gal air tank (the carrying reserve air tank type) from a pawn shop and changed the fittings so I can run from my compressor through the tank then to my wrench. Once I did that, I no longer have difficulty removing tight lug nuts unless they are way over torqued, someplace north of 600. I have a multiplier wrench for those I found at a pawn shop. My point is the the extra small tank can make it possible for your air wrench to work most of the time. If you are near southern MO anytime, you're welcome to use the multiplier wrench.

Rob
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luvrbus
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 08:42:03 PM »

I have had all 8 off mine more than once over the years JC I never broke a stud, lost a wheel or stripped a nut doing my own the only wheel that was ever broke was done by Southern Oregon Diesel

 We all do it different torquing ever nut is just not my cup of tea I almost forgot I am a big fan of never seize on the lugs and aluminum wheels too
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 08:45:30 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 11:54:08 PM »

Interesting and normal, I also did my own on the MC7, had to get a 3/4" GOOD air impact, not a H/F econo,  found using a 1/2" air line with larger couplers and the compresser psi set at 185, worked GREAT, was not able using a 6' bar, to remove em nuts, so now no problem.  Point is, 3/8"air line and the small couplers, just do not provide the needed CFM to fully utilize a 3/4" impact in my mind Grin
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 04:13:55 AM »

Luvrbus: how often does a bus nut have to tighten the nuts on all 10 wheels at once on the same day?

I have too many times seen tire shops put the nuts on with the 1" gun, then go around with the torque wrench set at 500 lbs and go click, click, and say they are torqued, when in fact they might have been tightened to 600 lbs or more, and the torque wrench for sure is going to go click, click. And when asked about it, say that they are doubled checking that they are tight enough. Sure they are: they are too tight!

I do my own, one at a time, and they are done right.

JC



YES, this is invariably what you are going to end up with regardless of whether they insist their rattle gun is set correctly and they don't let it keep rattling for ages. AND since this is what happens after you specify the correct procedure be followed AND stand there watching them, you can just imagine what happens when they are left to their own devices.
Also their other favourite trick is to slather gobs of some sort of antiseize muck all over the place regardless of whether your vehicle specs call for lubricated threads or clean dry threads. Get it wrong and the final stretch on the studs (which is what the torque does) could be out by a factor of three.

They other thing to watch is inflation pressures. I've had 4 new tyres fitted ona car and when checking, the pressures ranged from 20psi to 45 psi. Just criminal negligence really.
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belfert
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 07:48:14 AM »

I have too many times seen tire shops put the nuts on with the 1" gun, then go around with the torque wrench set at 500 lbs and go click, click, and say they are torqued, when in fact they might have been tightened to 600 lbs or more, and the torque wrench for sure is going to go click, click. And when asked about it, say that they are doubled checking that they are tight enough. Sure they are: they are too tight!

This is basically the exact situation I started this thread about.  They used an impact wrench and then checked the torque with a torque wrench.  Who knows what torque the nuts are really at.

The air compressor I used is only 9 or 10 CFM with small tanks.  I was also using 3/8" hose.  I wasn't really expecting it to work.  I have a big 60 gallon compressor with 5 HP motor I might actually get running some day.  The issue is getting the electric line run from the panel in the basement.  I also have 1/2" air hose and couplers I will use with the impact.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:51:41 AM by belfert » Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 08:41:52 AM »


Quote "The air compressor I used is only 9 or 10 CFM with small tanks.  I was also using 3/8" hose.  I wasn't really expecting it to work.   I also have 1/2" air hose and couplers I will use with the impact." Quote.
FWIW the small compressor with a 5 gallon punk tank and a 1/2" line with nice big fittings to a decent  3/4" impact will work but may require patience between nuts.  I have a "T" on my air line and use the 3/4" only to break the nut free, then I use my1/2" to spin them off.  All of this using a small compressor....It does take patience though waiting for the compressor to catch up, I multitask doing other stuff as the air builds.
My 3/4" impact is pretty much useless with a 3/8" line, even using a 5 gal punk tank.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 08:47:56 AM by zubzub » Logged

Jriddle
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 08:58:38 AM »

I may not be the sharpest tack in the box but if I owned a tire shop I would use a torque stick then double check with a torque wrench. I have seen on my car them only using torque stick and calling it good. I canít say for the shop you went to but may do use these.

John
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