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Author Topic: More torque issues at the tire shop  (Read 4998 times)
Scott Bennett
Scott & Heather MCI-9
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« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2013, 03:26:12 AM »

* Scott raises his hand * um, can I interject a quick question here? What are the left hand threads ye all are talking about? Please don't tell
me I have those on my '84 MCI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Clumsy fingers may contribute to mistakes.
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Scott & Heather
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2013, 07:00:27 AM »

Don't know if you got them on your 84, but i have them on my 68 5A.  Look on the end of the studs on the wheels on the drivers side of the bus......if you see a little "L" stamped in them you have left hand threads on those. It means they turn in the opposite direction to loosen and tighten up.....ie, clockwise to loosen, counter clockwise to tighten. The passenger side will be "normal"  Grin
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2013, 07:28:28 AM »

I don't have a problem lubing the studs just don't over do it and adjust your torque setting on the gun or wrench
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joel_newton
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« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2013, 08:46:04 AM »

I've read extensively the pros and cons of lubing lug bolts and understand the potential of over-torquing lubed lugs when torquing to dry specs. Looking at charts which show torque values for both dry and lubed regular bolt threads, lubed threads take a little less torque for the same clamping value.  With this in mind, I still would prefer to use a small amount of anti-seize on the threads (stud piloted Alcoa rims).  What adjustment did you make to your torque settings?

I recently installed new longer studs on the front of my bus. PO did not replace them after installing the Alcoa rims.  One side was lubed with anti-seize (threads only).  The nuts snugged down nicely.  On the other side I was in a hurry and did not lube the threads.  Those nuts were probably near the torque limit before even seating against the rim.  They had been carefully cleaned in the same manner as the nuts on the other side. This has convinced me that lightly lubing the threads will help insure the "correct" clamping force on the rim.
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kyle4501
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« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2013, 09:55:10 AM »

If the nuts are tight before clamp up, it has been my experience that they had been previously over tightened which resulted in some of the threads being deformed - which means new nuts are required.
If new nuts are tight before clamp up, then the studs have been stretched & it is time to replace them.

As for the required torque -
The torque is only a means of estimating the stud stretch which provides the clamping force.
The best way is to directly measure stud stretch - but since the back of the studs are usually inaccessible, that isn't a realistic method.
DRY torque is most repeatable (provided the threads are clean & not deformed) which is why it is used.
Lubricated torque is the most variable due to the differences in various lubricants.

As for never seize lubricants - which one you using? There are over a dozen to choose from & if you use a moly base, you will get lots more stud stretch for a given torque than if you used a graphite base.

My preference is clean & dry new threads.
When conditions conspire to prevent this;
I will use 3 drops of clean engine oil on the threads only - not the tapered face. Once tight, a light coat of a marine grade never seize on the exposed threads to prevent corrosion.

Bottom line is that well informed common sense will go a long way towards success.  Grin
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« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2013, 10:16:01 AM »

How much torque is needed to stretch a 160,000 lb tensile PSI grade 8 stud ? some are grade 9

 Joel all I have to go by are the 2 tech sheets sent to me from Euclid and Rockwell both say reduce the torque by 15 to 25% for lubed studs and nuts stud piloted or hub piloted 

 I use 17% and type 13 anti seize wipe off the excess as I was told to do it's never been had a problem yet
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 10:21:21 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2013, 12:32:52 PM »

Its only in the artificial world that we busnuts live in that the rattle gun / lubed thread issue even gets discussed.  In a million heavy duty shops across North America its a complete non issue.  I'm not saying the discussion isn't worthwhile but I travel a lot and I haven't seen any epidemic of rims flying loose on any highway anywhere. 
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2013, 12:38:31 PM »

You hit that nail square on the head Bob Roll Eyes
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akroyaleagle
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« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2013, 12:49:29 PM »

I agree with them.

A lot of folks get wrapped up over pissant hills.
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Joe Laird
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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2013, 01:07:57 PM »

What?   You really think any of us actually have a life? Huh Huh Huh
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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2013, 01:12:37 PM »

Hello   i've been flamed many a time for evan mentioning neversieze.   this argument never goes away..
   luvrbus your spec is 17% less than what original torque value?
      I like neversieze. been using it for most of my life but on this board its like the kiss of death

      regards   mike
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2013, 01:34:26 PM »

I just used the 17% off the 550 lbs that was in my Eagle book Mike I paid close attention to wheels for about 5000 miles when I first used formula the torque never changed and I checked with Alcoa before I did it

 Long live neversieze I have used it most all my life also the best thing since sliced bread IMO lot of people here I know used it but don't won't say anything on the board about it because of the flaming  
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 01:38:31 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Lin
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2013, 02:16:17 PM »

I have a confession to make.  When I first got my 160:1 torque multiplier, I tried it out on the driver's side front wheel.  I forgot that they were left handed threads and was therefore massively tightening that stud rather than loosening it.  I really pushed that handle quite aggressively wondering why the nut did not turn.  When I realized what I was doing, I straightened things out.

My point being that although I do not know how much that stud was torqued, I would bet that it was at least what an angry 1" air impact wrench would have done in the hands of a minimally skilled tire changer.  However, I can not identify which stud it was; it looks and acts just like the others on the wheel.  Still, I do make every effort to get the torque about right (150 pounds hanging on a 3+ foot bar), but I really am skeptical that being a bit over will do me any harm.
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2013, 02:52:56 PM »

Soooo, with my 400 lbs,  I only need 13.56 inches?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 02:54:42 PM by TexasBorderDude » Logged

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Lin
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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2013, 05:12:22 PM »

Personally, I'd round up to 14".
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