Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 25, 2014, 04:22:23 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This BB is intended for the sole purpose of sharing conversion and bus related information among visitors to our web site. These rules must be followed in order for us to continue this free exchange of info. No bad mouthing of any business or individual is permitted. Absolutely no items for sale are to be posted, except in the Spare Tire board. Interested in placing a classified or web ad, please contact our advertising dept. at 714-903-1784 or e-mail to: info@busconversions.com.

   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: black smoke after up to temp on expredway  (Read 2377 times)
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« on: October 15, 2013, 12:42:19 PM »

Driving down I39 about 250 miles into my trip bus started blowing black exhaust and lost a lot of power.  At 50mph 3rd barely pushes the bus on flat ground.
Temp gauge shows about 175
Outside temp is probably 60
I shut the bus off for about 10 min and started back up and it'll be fine for 30 or 50 miles.  This has happened 4 times today.

Checked coolant and oil levels and they are fine.

I have experienced a blown injector tip (constantly dumping fuel) and that blew a lot of black smoke, it is not that bad but I suspect it is fuel injector related.

Any thoughts?

Mci-7 8v71
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 12:45:10 PM by Dlsnow » Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
robertglines1
steam nut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4024





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 03:13:37 PM »

Air blockage;  filter--rag in intake----flapper---   low air or to much fuel=black smoke  got to have correct mix.
Logged

Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4570

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 04:33:25 PM »

When you shut it down, do you have to wait 10 minutes for it to come back to normal?  What happens if you shut it down and start it right up again?
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 04:46:30 PM »

I did shut it down while coasting downhill - probably for 1 minute and when i started it back up it was fine for a few minutes but then - black smoke.

I am at a rest stop for the night.

I do remember that when I hit the emergency flap once it blew alot of black smoke - so it makes sense it would be air intake.

At this point I can inspect the air intake system
I did replace the 4 air filters about 1 year ago
If i understand correctly the blower with the helical gears sucks air in through the air filters

Not sure what else to inspect other than the cleanliness of the air filters.
Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12767




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 04:58:03 PM »

Just pull the hose off the air horn to the filters it won't hurt it to run a few miles without the filters if it doesn't blow black smoke then it is the filters

 I take that has been converted from oil to dry filters ? when you say 4 sad you see that setup that is pour setup in my opinion  

I have a friend on this board the PO of his bus stuffed a dry paper filter into his oil bath housing now he has a dusted engine that needs rebuilding
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 05:39:56 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4762


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 05:02:14 PM »

The blower does indeed suck air in, and can mask a number of ills.  It quite mechanically pulls a certain amount of air in against sometimes quite high resistance, and can suck very hard indeed to accomplish that task.  Black smoke is lack of air, or excess of fuel, and lack of air is easiest to check out - air filter, rags sucked in, critters, take the top off the blower and look in, even run it with the top off or the air filter disconnected for a few miles to see what it does.  Check that the air box covers are all on and tight on the side of the block.  The stopping and it runs ok for a while has me buffaloed.

Clifford had the same idea, running with the air filter off...   Shocked    Grin

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4570

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 05:21:33 PM »

Also check the integrity of the intake ducts. Could one be collapsing?
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 05:49:13 AM »

All of the air box screws took about a 1/4 turn with some taking 1/2 or 1 full turn.

I removed the 4 air filters.

I am hitting the road now and will have an update after I pass st. Louis and the bus warms up.

Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
Seangie
www.herdofturtles.org
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 891


And We're Off... Like a Herd of Turtles


WWW

Ignore
Re:
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 05:55:26 AM »

Could it possibly be related to the Turbo locking up?


www.herdofturtles.org
1984 Eagle Model 10S
Logged

'Cause you know we,
we live in a van (Eagle 10 Suburban)
Driving through the night
To that old promised land'
John316
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3251

MCI 1995 DL3, DD S60, Allison B500.




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 07:27:13 AM »

What direction are you headed?

Sounds to me like an air supply issue to me. But then again, I am not a meckenic by any stretch Grin
Logged

MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 07:35:20 AM »

Headed to Tucson / Yuma for winter Wink
At the moment I am between St. Louis and Tulsa.

Bus is driving fine for now but as you know it takes a while to get up to full temp.

I have an 8v71N  (no turbo) if I understand correctly for the 1972 MCI MC-7
Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
ol713
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 159



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 09:36:32 AM »

Hi;
   I too have a MC-7.  I lost a throw out bearing in the same area
   you are in. When you get to Tulsa, contact Bill Rose of Pacesetter Coach.
   Bill was most helpful.  He runs a charter company, but he also works on
   privet coaches and used to run MC-7's in his business.

                  Bill Rose   800/487-4114

    It has been a few ago and I hope he has not retired.

                        Good luck,   Merle.








Headed to Tucson / Yuma for winter Wink
At the moment I am between St. Louis and Tulsa.

Bus is driving fine for now but as you know it takes a while to get up to full temp.

I have an 8v71N  (no turbo) if I understand correctly for the 1972 MCI MC-7
Logged
thomasinnv
Derrick Thomas
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 747


I may be nuts, but only for buses


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 02:14:45 PM »


I have a friend on this board the PO of his bus stuffed a dry paper filter into his oil bath housing now he has a dusted engine that needs rebuilding

Hey clifford I would still like to take you up on the use of your shop and your expertise if its still available. Been trying to get there for 2 years now but the stars just haven't aligned. The last year was especially rough but its looking up now.

Sure glad you're back home and feeling better. The world is a better place with you in it.

Sent from my PantechP9070 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Logged

There are three kinds of people in this world....those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that just wonder what the heck is happening. Which one are you?

1977 MCI Crusader MC-8
8V71N/740
95% converted (they're never really done, are they?)
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 07:44:21 PM »

Well removing the air filter seemed to clear the issue right up.  The filters are pretty blackened on the intake side and there was plenty or random debris like leaves, sticks, pebbles and other dirt dust in the little catch pan at the bottom of the filter housing. 

I was able to source 1 new filter.  The other 3 are 60 miles in the direction I am heading.

Hopefully when I put the new filters I'm things continue to go well.

Also there was notably more power without the air filters in.  It usually blows a little black smoke when going up a steep hill but none today.
Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
Scott Crosby
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2013, 01:21:19 AM »

You are running your bus with no air filters in?  That's a fast way to dust the engine and trash your linings in a hurry from what I've been told.   I would not reccomend that at all. 
Logged

61 GM Fishbowl TDH 4516 102" 35'
1947 GM PD 3751
www.busgreasemonkey.com
Jriddle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 670





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2013, 04:21:56 AM »

You are running your bus with no air filters in?  That's a fast way to dust the engine and trash your linings in a hurry from what I've been told.   I would not reccomend that at all. 

Looks like he got good advise on this in a eairlier post.

John
Logged

If It Can't Be Grown Then It Has To Be Mined
John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9
Scott Crosby
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2013, 06:45:56 AM »

Well I'll be a grease monkeys uncle, he did get told to run it with no air filters 2x.  I still wouldn't do that.  They said not for long, but didnt say  5min, 1hr, 100 miles, 1000 miles.  Changing air filters is a better diagnosis tool than no air filter to see if the problem goes away.  Especially if they look dirty and look to be in need of a change. Every auto parts store I use can usually have filters in one day if not same day if it's not in stock.   Sort of ironic that this is next to a post on the board right now about did an air filter failure ruin my engine?

But that's just my opinion and I'm not an expert.  If had to throw caution to the wind, I'd still like wind to be filtered that goes down the throat of my engine.   Just me. 
Logged

61 GM Fishbowl TDH 4516 102" 35'
1947 GM PD 3751
www.busgreasemonkey.com
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12767




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2013, 07:13:51 AM »

I only had 2 recommendations for him Scott 1st was remove the filter connection the other I didn't post but it was to change to the Baldwin PA 2721 filter Roll Eyes
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Scott Crosby
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2013, 07:20:20 AM »

That is the funniest post ever made on this board!   Epic Luvrbus! 
Logged

61 GM Fishbowl TDH 4516 102" 35'
1947 GM PD 3751
www.busgreasemonkey.com
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2013, 09:20:19 AM »

Well I was able to round up 4 air filters from a combination of Napa, O'Reily and Autozone.  So I have a from, two wix and a Napa.  I will let you all know how it goes today.

I got a little scared last night after reading technomadia recent experience with improper air filtration. 
Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
muldoonman
1991 Prevost 8V92TA
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 489





Ignore
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2013, 09:42:28 AM »

Don't know how yours is set up with 4 filters, are they stacked?  Do you have room for one big un  like my 91 prevost has? Sure would be a lot easier to change.
Logged
Ed Hackenbruch
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2432




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2013, 09:43:35 AM »

The PO of my bus rebuilt the engine twice during the 20 years that he had it. The first time was because he wasn't paying attention one time and lugged it and overheated it. He did a quick cheap rebuild on it. The second time was because he had cut a hole in the air channel between the filters and the blower for a project he was working on, and took it out for a short drive before patching the hole. He went thru a construction area that had a lot of fine white powder on the road and it ate the engine. He told me that he did a major rebuild that time. This happened about 12-13 thousand miles before i got it so it should last me for a while.   Grin
Logged

1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2013, 09:57:23 AM »

The air filters are very easy to change.

On the left side of the engine directly above the left engine bay door there are 4 canisters that are about 8 inch diameter and just over 1 foot tall with a wing nut style release. 

You just loosen the wing Nut, pull out the old element and replace.  All told it is a fifteen minute job.

The engine definitely runs a bit hotter (just below the 180) mark with filters.  It was around 170 without them. So far so good no black smoke.
Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6854





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2013, 10:00:45 AM »

You should be able to have air filters that present very little restriction. If yours are still oil bath, I would consider changing to paper elements. Or just plainly change out the 4 filters for one big one. Donaldson makes many filters and filter cans of different configurations.

Running an engine without the air filter for a few miles won't hurt it. The bus was driven enough without the filters to know that the problem was the air filters. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4762


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2013, 10:42:20 AM »

They are probably the old oil-bath filters with a dry filter conversion.  At least, they sound like it.  I had the oil bath filter setup, and I removed it when I installed my new turbo'd engine.  The PO of my bus carefully cleaned the wire mesh filters and ran them dry, and the engine was ruined.  The gritty oil sludge was caked 1/4" thick on the inside of the air box, a whole new meaning to the term "dusted".  I have heard different things about just putting a dry filter in the oil bath housing but really don't know.  My advice on removing the air filter connection (I actually said to pull the top off the blower and check inside) was kind of run it till you get an answer, 5 or 10 miles maybe.  It's kind of a toss-up which is worse, running with faulty clogged up filters or running with no filter for a few dozen miles.  If it were me, what I'd do is what I did do - rip out the stock air filter setup complete and install the biggest Donaldson ECO that would fit.  Mine kind of sits on the muffler cover and takes up the whole space beside the engine on the driver's side.  But I am glad the problem has found a solution!

Brian

Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
Dlsnow
dave
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


dave




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2013, 12:14:33 PM »

Ran great with the new air filters...right up till I blew the inside drive Axel tire.

Who knew a 12r 22.5 was a $600+ tire?

Waiting to get the new tire on now.
Logged

1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
bevans6
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4762


1980 MCI MC-5C




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2013, 12:22:12 PM »

It's not raining where you are, is it?  If it is, it's gonna start to pour...  Talk about a string of bad luck.

Brian
Logged

1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12767




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2013, 12:34:45 PM »

That is a big tire they have always been expensive compared to other sizes believe it not tires are sold by the weight to distributors
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
TexasBorderDude
Founder - Texas Curmudgeon Society
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 242


Nothing simple is ever easy...


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2013, 12:39:56 PM »

When I left Cliffords and headed East in August, l left my IR thermometer gun and hadn't been checking the tires even by touching by hand.  Sure enough I blew the right front.  Age?  Low air?  Heat?  Who knows?

Has anyone ever blown a tire that they had checked and was running at normal temps?  Has anyone ever blown a tire that they had not been checking?
Logged

A curmudgeon's reputation for malevolence is undeserved. They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. They're just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy.
Fredward
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 624


MC-5A #5401 8" roof raise 8V71 with MT647




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2013, 03:23:02 PM »

Last Spring I found 12R-22.5 load range H for around $320.00. Hankook Tires. I know not the best but for my 6,000 miles a year they seem fine.

Of course sitting on the side of the road with a blowout is a hard time to go tire shopping. BTDT.
Logged

Fred Thomson
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!