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Author Topic: starter was turnig real slow and now just clicks  (Read 6121 times)
Dlsnow
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2013, 12:27:35 PM »

I misspoke before.  I can hear the relay click in the electrical box.  I cannot hear or feel the solenoid engaging the pinion into the flywheel.  What is confusing to me is that I can read the voltage passing through the terminals on the solenoid. 

And I believe the PO already bypassed the fuel pressure.  That was probably the wire clamped to the frame.

I am going to write down the electrical schematic and study the manual.  Some things aren't making sense.  I must be missing something as I can detect voltage everywhere I think it should be.

Could my solenoid be stuck engadged?

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1972 MCI7 8v71 converted - 1kw solar on roof
luvrbus
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2013, 12:36:01 PM »

I don't know he is wired but on my MCI 8 when the pressure switch was bad it would click,one never knows for sure without a lot of trial and error,but his sounds like it may be starter time the low voltage protection and brushes can be a nightmare on the 42 Delco ,can you turn the engine over with a wrench ? got a 1-1/2 wrench or socket with you  
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bevans6
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2013, 12:42:02 PM »

The solenoid could be stuck.  When you check for voltage at the solenoid be sure to measure across it's terminals, not from the positive terminal to some other ground.  Check that voltage switches at the solenoid positive terminal when the starter switch is thrown and the relay in the panel clicks.  Check where the wire from the solenoid ground terminal actually goes and make sure it is connected to a good clean ground.  Make sure you are working on the right terminals - the solenoid control terminals are the little ones with a small nut on them and 14 gauge wire.  The starter motor terminals are the big ones with a 3/4" nut and a 4/0 cable on them.  If it is getting voltage switched by the starter switch and relay, has a good ground and still does nothing when you do that, it's broken.  Next step is hit it with a hammer, give it a few good solid clouts, and see if that helps.  Some times that helps a lot, other times it just makes you feel better...

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2013, 12:42:59 PM »

Before you do this, make sure you wear a face sheld, since it will probably produce a big spark. With jumper cables hooked to the batteries, attach the negative to the starter shell (the mounting bolts is good). Then with the positive try touching the big bolt that takes the current from the solenoid to the starter. If it sparks with nothing, or doesn't do any thing, then the motor is toast. If the starter motor spins, then it probably is a bad starter solenoid. Best is just take the starter off and test it. Good Luck, TomC
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Dlsnow
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2013, 12:43:48 PM »

Low voltage protection you say.  Do you know where the cutoff point is?  

I really need to get a hygrometer and get these batteries charged.  

I do have a 18 inch wrench and can turn the engine over.  It does turn thank god.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2013, 12:53:26 PM »

Take the starter off have it tested you will need a rebuilding shop Auto Parts houses are not good at testing 24v starters are you at the welcome center on I 40 in Amarillo if so Grand Electric off 1 40 on Grand St may have the starter in stock or can test yours 1-800-572-8042
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:00:09 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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Dlsnow
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2013, 12:59:42 PM »

Cliff - I am at the Walmart on the east side just off I40

Brian - I was testing voltage with the negative lead on the chassis this whole time.  I will test the way you described and see what I have.

I feel like I will be removing this thing.  How hard is the removal?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2013, 01:05:09 PM »

You are not far from Grand those are heavy suckers but not hard to to remove save the easy bolt for last the top bolt is the worst 30 minutes you will have it off 
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bevans6
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2013, 02:05:43 PM »

Get a 1" ratchet strap to hold the starter up while you take it off and on, if you have the 12 point small diameter head bolts you'd need a 12 point socket, and you'll need some extensions of different lengths, the one's with the wobble ends work good.  I also used a floor jack to hold it up when installing one once.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
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John316
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2013, 02:13:18 PM »

Let's back up here guys. If it is the solenoid, correct me if I am wrong, he should be able to knock start it with a heavy rubber mallet. Basically, have somebody else hit the switch, while you wallop that solenoid to try to free it. We have had to do that several times, when our solenoid is starting to get iffy. I have yet (that isn't saying much) to have a solenoid just lay down and quit on me, just like that.

It would at least get your rolling.

Thoughts?
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
bevans6
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2013, 02:36:44 PM »

I already suggested the hit it with a hammer repair, so I thought that had been tried.  If not, go for it, it's worked for me before.

Brian
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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Spicer 8844 4 speed Zen meditation device
Vintage race cars -
1978 Lola T440 Formula Ford
1972 NTM MK-4 B/SR
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 02:39:09 PM »

Since you are already at Walmart, I would assume that their auto department would be able to load test the batteries.  You might even be able to convince someone there to bring the load tester out to the bus in the parking lot rather than have to bring the batteries to them.  This would be better since, aside from not having to cart the batteries over, they could connect to the outside of the terminal rather than the posts.

Since the problem started with slow turning and deteriorated to the clicking, it would not seem to be the solenoid unless there are several issues.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 02:43:20 PM by Lin » Logged

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robertglines1
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2013, 02:47:36 PM »

ck to see if bolts that hold starter in are tight. loose starter bolts will give similar  results.
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2013, 06:15:21 PM »

Heavy indeed and the bolt behind the starter is a lot of fun. Long extension and 12 point 9/16 socket I believe. Check your fuel pressure switch that comes off the fuel filters. There will be a wire going to it and another 10 or 12 gauge wire coming off of it and going to the frame or such as a ground. The sending unit that they go to will look like an oil pressure sending unit basically. This needs to ground out or it disables the starter. Basically it works in reverse order of what you think it should. You can disable it by directly grounding it out. I'm thinking that is the smaller gauge line you are talking about. No fuel pressure will make a ground enabling the starter to work while fuel pressure will disable the ground making the starter not engage. They seem to have problems from time to time. If you have 2 wires going to it basically tie them together. They are just ground wires. Just my idea.
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Dlsnow
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2013, 07:57:22 AM »

So here is my update. 

Grand Battery does have the starter in stock <$200 with core exchange.  Not bad but they don't reopen till Monday. 

I took out the bus batteries and am taking them in for a load test and charge. Not sure where yet but I will find a place.  I need to pickup a hygrometer and some distilled water as they were/are quite low.

Not sure how the water level got so low over the last 5 months but they look half full.
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