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Author Topic: Get your bus out of the mud with a winch!  (Read 2448 times)
Oregonconversion
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« on: December 04, 2013, 11:02:36 AM »

My bus is not stuck, this is just a question I have been thinking about.

Hypothetically speaking... how large of a winch would you need to pull a converted MCI bus out of the mud.
Im not talking buried tires, just slipping and starting to dig in a little.

I know this is a loaded question, but it will be fun to see the different answers from all you bus nuts.  Grin

My guess is a 12,000 pound wench would do it. I have never tried this, so its JUST a guess!  Cheesy 
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 11:05:37 AM »

When I stuck my 4106 in the sand and near Clifford's , I called coach net. I don't think that's the answer you where looking for but it worked.
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Mike AKA; Red Rider 4106-1885
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 11:08:17 AM »

Probably wouldn't take much of a winch if it wasn't buried. Try raising the tag to put more weight on the drive.

I would be more concerned about the size of the winch cable. If you snap that near the winch, it will
redecorate the front of the bus and the windshield. Probably a lot more.
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Joe Laird
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 11:09:17 AM »

I was thinking you could drive a giant stake into the ground and attach the winch onto it if there were not any trees around.
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 11:11:12 AM »

I think to deal with almost any degree of stuck, it might take more than a 12,000 pound winch and if the ground was soft enough to sink into, it probably won't hold a post you can drive in to the ground well enough to take that kind of force.  Especially since buses don't seem to barely get stuck very often.   Now with a

12,000 pound wench

I just don't know.  Maybe???   Grin
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Oregonconversion
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 11:13:36 AM »

Well if a truck that was rated for towing 10,000 pounds can move a 300,000 pound space shuttle, then this makes sense? LOL
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 11:14:57 AM »

haha! Winch!
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 11:26:33 AM »

Well if a truck that was rated for towing 10,000 pounds can move a 300,000 pound space shuttle, then this makes sense? LOL

That is a good point.  On the other hand, that situation is high pressure tires on a hard smooth surface.  Minimal rolling resistance.   But just jamb one of the shuttle's wheels with block of wood and I would just about bet that truck would be out of luck.

Next think about pushing a car yourself. On smooth flat ground no problem.  Add grass it gets a little harder.  Ad softness to the ground and it gets a lot harder.  Mire a tire, forget it.

On flat ground we use pickups to reposition no operating buses here on the shops lot.  But they wouldn't stand a chance if one or more wheels got into the ground a bit.
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Oregonconversion
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 11:30:13 AM »

Great point!


buuuttt.....

The ratio of 300,000 - 10,000 is 30
The radio of 40,000 -12,000 is about 3.33!!!!
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 11:30:52 AM »

Quick, someone go get stuck!
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 11:37:13 AM »

Great point!


buuuttt.....

The ratio of 300,000 - 10,000 is 30
The radio of 40,000 -12,000 is about 3.33!!!!

True.  And if the bus is only a little stuck, it would probably only multiply the force 3 or 4 times.  But if the tire got sunk in perhaps 8 inches or so, I think we are dealing with exponentials there.  lol
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Oregonconversion
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 11:38:57 AM »

Also you don't have the slip factor that a vehicle with wheels would have.
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 11:57:55 AM »

Three or four part the line it will get it out. Two problems make sure you try it to something heavier than the bus and you don't pull the bus in two.

Wayne
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 12:01:26 PM »

 You would be amazed at what a good "snatch strap" and a pick-up can do to "unstick" a bus.>>>Dan
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 12:08:50 PM »

   I was thinking you could drive a giant stake into the ground and attach the winch onto it if there were not any trees around.   

     Only if a farmer was paying you to plow a field.  I've had to pull out lots of Land Rovers that were "barely stuck" -- we almost never had any luck with driven anchors or "ground anchors" or anything other than a very solid object.  Almost any load will pull the stake (even a "giant" one) right out.

     One thing that we did do was put a couple of floor mats or a folded blanket etc over the winch cable.  If the cable breaks if you do this, you'll probably only take out one headlight and one windshield panel instead of everything on the front of the bus.    Roll Eyes   Wink   
 
     In the right situation, with the right set up (particularly if you can get any "drive" from the stuck vehicle itself), a winch seems to work miracles.  If you have anything working against you (uphill, deep sunk tires, no anchor point, no way to get a good angle on the pull. etc.), you can pull all day and just waste your time (at best -- or really bust something up, at worst).
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »

When you say a "giant" stake.... how large are you talking? Did you put it at an angle?
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 12:31:45 PM »

I vaguely remember something about some adapter that could be bolted onto the outside of a wheel, then a rope was wound around it and anchored to something immovable (another vehicle maybe?).   The stuck vehicle was then put into gear, and when the wheel turned it wound the rope around the spool and pulled itself out.   It's a neat idea  -  has anyone seen or used anything like this?

My bus has a receiver hitch in the front, hidden behind the hinged license plate, so I could potentially put a tow hook or even a winch there.   It also has mounting holes for heavy-duty tow hooks on the frame rails at both ends  -  these hooks were a factory option, but I don't have them.   I'm thinking of getting some hooks off a junked bus at a breaker's yard and bolting them on, just in case . . .

John

PS  -  thinking about that winch adapter, it won't work unless you have a locking diff.   Maybe it was for the off-road rock-crawling folk who have that on their 4WDs?   Back to the drawing board.   I still think that big wenches and giant steaks sound better.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:40:08 PM by Iceni John » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »

That would be cool if the next conversion fad was removable winches!
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 01:00:25 PM »

   Coaches have a nasty habit, when stuck in mud or soft ground to sink straight down till they are resting on the body, suspension beams, and engine. Choose wisely when and where you park. Otherwise you become familiar with the term "plank it out". Usually the odds of finding a suitable attachment point (not the coach end) for the hook end of cable are about as great as winning the lottery. Have a professional towing service retrieve it. You may get lucky if you don't bury it to get a 4wd truck to pull it out if you don't help, but steer, if he has solid ground to pull from and doesn't try to drag you through more soft ground to get you out. Have you ever noticed that big manure spreaders use flotation tires? Now you know why. Also remember that there is a lot of weight on those front tires that impede moving forward and prefer to create great ruts. Some firm grassy parking areas can become soft and sloppy after rain storms/showers.
   I'm sure some longer term members can relate stories or nightmares that either happened to them or preferably to someone else, unless they prefer to forget it ever happened in the first place.
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 03:42:38 PM »

...
   Coaches have a nasty habit, when stuck in mud or soft ground to sink straight down till they are resting on the body, suspension beams, and engine....

      Exactly, if you're at that point, the only thing a winch that you can carry on your bus and power off your batteries will do is to tear stuff up!
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 04:25:42 PM »

One of the nice things about having a transit bus-the tow eyes are built into the front of the bus.

Best way is just not to get into that situation in the first place. Amazing how much you can prevent by getting outside and walking the route first. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 04:44:42 PM »

A 12,000 winch is not much most Jeeps with a front winch are 12,000 lbs I was told by a wrecker service to X the weight by 2 and that was the size winch and truck they sent, the 12,000 lbs is line pull
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 05:16:18 PM »

I've got a Komatsu Dozer out here! Where you at! LOL!
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georgemci102a2
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 05:20:51 PM »

I totally agree with "get out and look" or as i like to call it (GOAL)....George.
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Van
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 05:32:41 PM »

RECOVERY:
Reconnoiter the area.
Estimate the situation.
Calculate the Ratio.
Obtain the resistance.
Verify the solution.Erect the rigging.
Re-check rigging.
You are ready.
This simple method is still being taught in todays military Recovery Specialist course. Just slipping on mud a straight line pull will do providing the cable and winch are rated for the load. The deeper you get stuck the more mechanical advantage you will need, 2 to 1, 3 to 1 and so on.
To emphasis this point we would mire a Duece and a half up to the fenders in mud at the Aberdeen Proving grounds, and have them use rope and block, and pull said vehicle out by hand only (ol school). Anyone can do it, but it is best left up to the professionals for safety sake if unsure!  Wink    
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 05:35:17 PM by Van » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 06:25:49 PM »

Forget the winch or the wench or the jeep just do this  Grin Grin Grin

http://www.funniestvideosonline.com/video.php?video=2349&How_to_Unstuck_a_Tractor_from_the_Mud

Melbo
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 01:06:27 PM »

Well I buried the rear of my mc-9 in the sand at a beach camp ground one year.. about 18 down..

It was fine parked for 5 days then I started it up and when I went to leave it just dug straight down and did not move an inch..

I hooked up my Avalanche with chain from receiver to front tow hooks on bus.. put AV in 4x4 low had a friend jump in AV and slowly stay on gas while I started to spin bus tries and it came right out with out much effort at all.

I thought it would have been a lot harder to get it out then it was.

as for winches I think it depends on how stuck you are and if you are winching up a hill on flat ground etc?

On my jeep that weights 4500lbs I have a 9000lb winch.. but I usually dont use it unless I am stuck and pointing up a steep hill

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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 02:40:05 PM »



      There was some kind of cable or line attached to the front of the tractor.  Nice work with the tree trunks, though (as long as it doesn't flip over backwards and crush the tractor driver).
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
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Scott Bennett
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 05:46:58 AM »

A 12,000 winch is not much most Jeeps with a front winch are 12,000 lbs I was told by a wrecker service to X the weight by 2 and that was the size winch and truck they sent, the 12,000 lbs is line pull


This is the truth. For our 6000 lb land cruiser we are getting a 12,000 lb winch. A bus would need much more. That being said, today's winches many times come with synthetic line. Not nearly as dangerous as a cable. Also, we mired our coach in  the mud this past summer and a little four wheel drive tractor pushed us out. Smiley


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Clumsy fingers may contribute to mistakes.
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Scott & Heather
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2013, 11:32:22 AM »

NICE!


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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2013, 01:48:02 PM »

A good pilot does not get himself into a situation where he has to show how well he can fly,  same for a bus - truck driver, smart ones stay out of problem areas by being aware of what - where they are.
If all else fails, rent a Tank Retriever  Grin
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2013, 02:52:34 PM »

My guess is a 12,000 pound wench would do it. I have never tried this, so its JUST a guess!  Cheesy 

I realize I'm a little late to this conversation but if my wench weighed 12,000# I'd just ask her - very nicely mind you - but I'd just ask her if she would please pull me out.  Since my wench weighs a lot less than that she's not an option.

No way in hell would I expect a 12,000 pound winch to pull a bus if it was really stuck.  The real problem once you get any big rig thoroughly mired is suction.  Once the whole belly of the unit is sitting on wet ground it takes a phenomenal amount of pull to break it free from the ground. As many have already said, the best cure is prevention because when you get serious about pulling you can pull really big pieces of iron apart.  Pretty well every spring one of my drivers would get something really truly stuck.  We could always count on something unexpected flying apart on the unit that had been stuck at some point after we got it back on the road.  Don't get stuck. 
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« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2013, 10:21:01 AM »

My mc9 was stuck when I first bought it, it was raining like crazy all week.

Towed it out with a dump truck. Came right out.
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Jon
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2013, 10:40:15 AM »

  The real problem once you get any big rig thoroughly mired is suction.  Once the whole belly of the unit is sitting on wet ground it takes a phenomenal amount of pull to break it free from the ground.  


That's what explosives are for

of course tanks are a little tougher than a bus Kiss
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Doug
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2013, 02:53:09 PM »

Well, it happened. Let my Scenic set too long. Tried to move it and before I knew it, dug it inpretty bad. Really didn't take much either, Just a few failed attempts to move it with various what nots crammed in front of the tires.
So after 6 hours with a shovel, bottle jack, bricks and steel ramps, she finally drove out at idle power. Fun. Next for me, concrete pad to park on, and a snatch strap for when I'm on the road...if I ever reach that point!
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Boyce Rampey
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« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2013, 07:29:45 PM »

Quick, someone go get stuck!

 Ok I'm stuck, but I'm sure a full tank of fuel will get me out. Send money    Grin
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Scott 
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