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Author Topic: Bus barn ideas  (Read 3189 times)
Emcemv
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« on: January 05, 2014, 06:31:34 PM »

In 2014 we are working towards moving up to the coast of Maine. Our plans include getting the bus inside and having a work area with a 2 post car lift. I am thinking of a 30'x50' metal building with a 14' ceiling height and 14' overhead door. Does anyone have any experience or opinions on building vendors? There seems to be a ton of them on the web and that scares me. How about the concrete slab, is a 6" slab ok for my 73 MC-7? Any thoughts and guidance would be appreciated.


Bruce
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 06:44:27 PM »

How do install a 14 ft door in a 14 ft building ? metal building are engineered to the area just be sure they furnished a engineered and signed set of plans if not permits are going to be a problem for you 

I have a Impact building and a 6 inch slab will work just use 4000# concrete with a good base concrete is only good as the base under it   

good luck
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 06:49:18 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 06:47:19 PM »

Exactly what Clifford said! Our county permit office says a lot of folks buy metal buildings without the proper engineering plans and then have to spend big bucks to get it permitted!
Jack
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 06:48:34 PM »

Bigger.  I have a 30x50 shop.  If you put a bus in it, you would take up 1/3 of the space, and essentially be unable to use the door you brought it through.  Mine has a 12' eve height, and a 16' peak, with 10x10' doors centered at each end.  It was built for working on cars and storing agricultural equipment, not for an RV.  I had a local contractor build it, but lots of my friends have had great luck with Mueller buildings.

Cheers, John
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 07:01:07 PM »

Thanks to all for the answers, Clifford door height will be 14' so roof peak will obviously be higher, I'm looking at one vender that does custom engineering plans for local codes and supplies engineered, signed plans and I will be able to talk to the inspector before purchasing the building so hope to minimize any code issues.

I can't really afford to go larger than 30x50, we have only one acre of land to work with and have house renovations to finance as well so 30x50 it is.

John, I will check on mueller buildings, thanks for the lead.

Bruce
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, 07:25:23 PM »

I built it myself.  Mueller buildings are engineered, and easy to assemble.


http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=24831.0


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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 07:33:24 PM »

There is not going be any difference in any metal building except the price there is a place in Phoenix that rolls the metal for 35 different metal building suppliers fwiw they all use the same gauge steel ,paint even down to the screws

good luck
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 09:36:12 PM »

Bruce -

My nickel's worth:

If you can squeeze it onto the property, try going 30x60.  Only having 50' length just gives you 5' on either end of the bus - hardly enough to open up the engine compartment to check the oil with the barn door closed, let alone squeeze in a ladder to change the wiper blades.

A 16' door would be better than a 14 - think roof A/Cs, solar panels, fridge vent, Fantastic Fan vent, antennas, etc.  You wouldn't want any of them on the floor because the door scraped them off, would you?

Are you planning for the car lift to be in the same "stall" as the bus, or a separate one?  If the same, a single door will do, but if the lift is in an adjacent stall, then you're going to need an additional door for access.

Another thing to consider is shape, which may or may not increase/decrease the cost.  Think either a "b", "d" or "P" design, where the bus stall is 15x60 and the car stall is 15x30.  If you make the back wall 30' ("P"), then you could have a driveway or car port in front of the car stall.

Oh, be sure to install drains so you can wash down the floor!  Heck - if possible, maybe even a dump station for the holding tanks!

I don't know if these suggestions will make a huge difference in the initial budget, but the deeper length for the bus will pay BIG dividends in useability and convenience over time.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2014, 03:42:29 AM »

Up here in Nova Scotia the more popular type of building is a regular stick built frame with trusses and metal siding.  Not sure of why, but that's what both of my buildings are, and if metal was better or cheaper I'd see them around.  My big building is basically 12 foot at the walls, 50 feet deep and 60 feet wide with clear span engineered wood trusses and 2 by 6 walls.  The smaller building is 40 feet wide by 60 feet deep, with 16 foot walls.  I think one reason is it's easy to insulate a stick-framed building.  Anyway, Maine being the same climate and region that might be something to look in to.

Brian
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2014, 03:55:46 AM »

Wood trusses are popular in the cold country with a heavy snow load,the materiel is cheaper but labor cost offset the prices between the 2 

In your area Brian probably the box stores like WalMart and HD will more than likely have wood roof trusses or wood faced steel trusses 

good luck
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 07:07:58 AM »

My shop is a metal building with 16' sidewalls. I built the bus barn out of wood. In 1997 metal was about 30% less than wood. Today it is the opposite. Metal buildings are engineered by region for snow/wind loads. There are wood post companies that do the same. One is Hoover. I built the barn similar to such. I went 40' x 60'. Everyone is right about the 50'. You don't reall have a lot of room around a 40' coach at 30 x 50. The cost is not much more until you go over 40'. I have 16'-4" from the bottom of the truss to floor level. The doors are barrel doors with a 14' ht. I had to buy 22' 6 x6's. They are the big ticket item. A 16' was app. $ 35.00, but the 22'  were $95.00 We needed to put the post at least 5' in the ground due to bld ht. The trusses are spaced @ 20' on my metal building, and 10' on the barn.







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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2014, 07:36:09 AM »

Really all you pay for is the extra siding (6 sheets) and a small charge for the extra purlins length to go to 40 ft it's not a problem to space trusses 30 ft apart on a steel building using the dee type purlins the roof pitch changes for snow country pour a 30x50 slab and come back later and pour the extra 10 ft 

The concrete work has gotten where it cost more than the building I am one of the old school guys I want river rock no crushed rock or fly ash in my concrete 

good luck
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:56:14 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2014, 08:28:15 AM »

My buildings are just plain old frame buildings, 24" on center studs and joints.  But I had another thought about "the north country".  Be sure to consult with local builders, they will know what is best practice in your new home.  Big buildings with thick concrete floors are very prone to bad condensation problems up here.  The floor stays cold into July/August, and it can be raining inside when it's sunny outside.  A lot of people run hydronic heating in the floors.  I know one guy who does it with a wood fired boiler that was old in the middle of the last century, and a diesel fired pump.  But getting the slab warm is about the best way to both heat and to kill the condensation.

Brian
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2014, 11:22:27 AM »

Well, I knew you guys would have a lot of advice! This has been great, thanks all for the help,

I am actually having a local builder quote doing it stick built and I am looking into the metal building route to see which is less expensive.  We also have something out here called a pole barn which is pretty much what Eric posted the pictures of so that may also be a better option. You really have me thinking about the 60' size now.  The 2 post car lift will be beside the bus so access to it would be difficult with the bus inside if I only go 50'.
I'm really thinking I'm ok with the 14' door, I'm actually under 13' right now and am trying to take things off the roof of the bus, not adding them because I just think the bus looks so much better with less stuff on the roof.

Thanks again guys, great help!!

Bruce
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2014, 12:03:11 PM »

   Mine is a Morton building...48x60x 15 foot ceiling, 12x12 doors,  9 inch insulation in walls and 12 inch in ceiling with floor in attic for storage of lighter items. 6 inch concrete floor with mesh and rebar and 35 foot pit with air and lights. If kept closed in summer, temp stays in low 70's, even when it is in the nineties outside. Stays just above freezing in winter with no heat for weeks, although I have a waste oil furnace I use when I'm out there working. Changes I would make? 16 foot ceiling with 12x14 doors and maybe 54x72, but I'm totally happy with what I have. I did just add a 30x 18 addition on the back for tractor, attachments, couple of barrels of oil and waste oil and other items to clean up main shop.
   If cost is a consideration and you don't mind the looks, those Quonset hut type buildings are a nice alternative that with some help can be erected yourself. Just make sure you start with enough width to start with, as you can easily add more length anytime you want easily, if you have enough land behind it for expansion. Here is an example, not necessarily a recommendation:
Duro Steel 40x100x18 New Metal Building Factory DiRECT Quonset Hut Farm Storage ( as listed on Ebay)
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2014, 01:04:45 PM »

In the cold country keep the roof as low as possible in the hot country have it as high as possible here 18 ft is the norm 

I have never cut the insulation from my 6 skylights because of the heat factor here most box stores like Walmart follow that type of construction their roofs varies in height across the nation to save a nickle on the power usage  fwiw   
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2014, 01:34:03 PM »

I have two roll up doors in mine. Both are 14' tall. One is 14' wide, and one is 12' wide. My bus is well over 12', 12'-6" best I remember. As I said the barrel door is mounted righ above the opening with no tracks to deal with. I have no problem getting in either but 14' wide is nicw to have. Done over I would have made both 14' wide. I also have a 16' shed on each side for storage. The pole barn was a no brainer after I priced the metal building!! Like Clifford said higher in hot climate!! I have windows overhead that open to let heat out. I have 1-1/2" rmax in the walls, and 4" rmax overhead. On a 90 degree day I can walk in and it feels like its air conditioned.
 
 
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2014, 06:42:07 AM »

Here's a shot of my garage (old photo, before I finished framing the door, closed in the siding on the front, installed the door tracks and hung doors).  It's 50' long (my bus is 33') by 24; it's 15'9" inside height at the top of the arch, 14' 9" for 16' width across the top of the arch; the door is 14'tall and 12' wide.  I bought it, had it delivered and put it up (most of the labor myself, paid a helper $600 to help install the top arches) for $8000.  It's PE-certified and accepted by the county inspector, is rated for 151 MPH winds (we're in Hurricane Alley in eastern NC), and seems watertight.  Foundation (16" deep channels for edges, 6" thick floor, double-rebar) cost $9500; driveway is 6", cost $9000; this was when concrete was sky-high during Iraq-war construction.

The 24' width is less than I'd like but OK for my purposes; going wider would have increased the cost a lot.  We see 1 1/2 inches of snow about once every 3 years - dunno how this kind of building would work for snowy areas.

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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2014, 09:31:41 AM »

Eric and Bruce

Beautiful set ups, thanks for the photos.  Bruce, I have seen that type of construction, it's nice and simple and I think is snow load rated up here.  Eric has got me thinking that a pole barn without a slab may be the least expensive way to go.  I would have a small slab for the 2 post car lift and use crushed stone for the rest of the area.

I've got a lot to look into now, thanks to you all!

Bruce
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2014, 10:19:29 AM »

our shop in Kansas is 30 x 50. I have plenty of room. 16' side walls with 2' of polycarbonate clear material along to top of both walls. No lights needed in the daytime. 14 x 14 door on the bus bay and a std. car door on the other one 7 tall 9 wide I think. When we are gone in the winter we rent the bus side to a family to keep their RV in. If we would have put in 2 tall doors 1. the building would look more balanced and 2. it would give two rental stalls. This building is wood timber construction. my builder told me the 40' wide building would be almost twice as much over the30' due mainly to the cost of the trusses. The trusses were only made about 6 miles from the site. We could always extend the building out the rear if more room is needed.
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2014, 11:19:32 AM »

Eric and Bruce

Beautiful set ups, thanks for the photos.  Bruce, I have seen that type of construction, it's nice and simple and I think is snow load rated up here.  Eric has got me thinking that a pole barn without a slab may be the least expensive way to go.  I would have a small slab for the 2 post car lift and use crushed stone for the rest of the area.

I've got a lot to look into now, thanks to you all!

Bruce

Bruce,
May I make a s suggestion? (doesn't matter I'm going to anyway)

If you go this route I'd suggest you actually pour a footer all the way around the bottom of the barn while pouring your slab. (you could even set your poles into it) that way later on if you decide to you can pour the rest of the floor and it'll already be under the walls!
Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2014, 12:02:24 PM »

  Eric and Bruce

Beautiful set ups, thanks for the photos.  Bruce, I have seen that type of construction, it's nice and simple and I think is snow load rated up here.  Eric has got me thinking that a pole barn without a slab may be the least expensive way to go.  I would have a small slab for the 2 post car lift and use crushed stone for the rest of the area.

I've got a lot to look into now, thanks to you all!     Bruce 

       Yeah, I was thinking about a small pad without a slab (that's how my hangar at the airport is) but the soil here is very sandy and fine -- it wouldn't give much support to a small pad and it would be very unreliable to park on in rainy season.  My building has U-channels that bolt to the slab so that it's water/animal tight.  So, the full floor gives me load support (i.e. six big ole heavy bus tires), a clean floor, and weather/animal/break in security.  But that slab sure was a big expense that was hard to swallow; on the other hand, when I'm too old to bus, I can sell the whole building or just the land and slab as a pre-laid floor for another person to build what ever building suits his purpose.

       But what I learned for this is that everyone has different needs, different wants, and different wallets/payback plans.  I think I did OK, but if I did it was more by chance than by smarts.
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2014, 03:08:30 PM »

just a pic to show my place off...   Grin  the garage is just a garage, but 28 by 32, fully insulated and heated.  I am restoring the race car in that shop.  The left hand building is the boat shed that has 12 foot ceiling height, it currently has three boats, a horse trailer and my bus in it, plus my heated machine shop and an unheated workshop.  The right hand building is the bus shed, it has a 45 foot poured pad, is basically 40 by 60, and a local business is redoing a 40 foot lobster boat in it this winter.  It has a 15 foot high door, for scale.

Brian

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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2014, 03:11:40 PM »

Lots of legal, code and engineering concerns.  Also do not build it too small...think 30 years down the road.  Can a full size 18 wheeler combo fit?  Is the door and roof tall and wide enough?  How about a full size bus/truck lift?  How high will that go?  What about a dedicated pit?  240 three phase power.  Heating.  Etc..  Lots of stuff to consider.  HB of CJ (old coot)










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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2014, 06:31:25 PM »

I'm jealous of those of you who have buildings for your bus.  I wish I could find a place to build ANY building for my bus that is within reasonable driving distance of my employer.  One city allows a garage up to 2,000 sq feet, but my commute would be at least an hour each way and more in winter weather.  One city closer in allows 952 sq ft, but there is a 18 foot roof peak height limit plus it can't be taller than the house.  The city I live in now allows only 750 sq feet of garage space and I already have a 600 sq foot attached garage.

One city doesn't allow RVs more than 20 feet long unless you have 2.5 acres!  I saw a really nice house with geothermal heating there, but I wouldn't be able to park my bus because it is just an acre lot.
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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2014, 07:09:42 PM »

BK I like your idea of pouring the footer around the edge.....I keep thinking that I might not be able to afford the full slab in the beginning and if I poor the footer around the outside I can always finish the slab later.

Brian, I'm not there yet, bus is still outside right now but I'm trying real hard to get it inside. We will be moving to a small coastal town with only about 2000 people in it so the zoning laws are pretty minimal.  I do need to check all this, it was good that you brought that issue up, thanks.

Bruce
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« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2014, 10:12:50 PM »

I would add a 2 or 3 foot concrete stub wall on that footing and build the wall on top of that. The next time your working and the sparks roll up to the wall or when your washing the floor and the water is against the wall; which material do you want there?
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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2014, 02:26:54 AM »

  I would add a 2 or 3 foot concrete stub wall on that footing and build the wall on top of that. The next time your working and the sparks roll up to the wall or when your washing the floor and the water is against the wall; which material do you want there?

    Yes!  Even with my structure, I'm sorry that I didn't do this!   
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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2014, 01:05:45 PM »

When we put the pole barn part up, I ran a 2 x 8 around the bottom. The top of it was placed 2" above what would be finished floor height. We used treated lumber that was approved for ground contact. ( very important!! All treated lumber is not the same. The metal outside was attached to it. I finished all the work inside then poured the concrete to the 2 x 8 at 2" from the top. A metal bld in this area requires a monolithic slab with an 18" x 18" footing at edges, with rebar. Can't put the building up without that first. With the pole barn construction, you have the option of pouring the floor anytime. I actuall put rock dust down and parked the bus on that for several months before I poured it.
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« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2014, 01:39:38 PM »

Here and other areas I have been in we can do a metal building with piers,spot footings or a beam the size perimeter of the building then come back and pour a slab in this area all the metal building for storage units are built on piers with rock base floors, mine is a slab and beam with 8 inch thick concrete in the center then 10ft on each side is 6 inches but mine is a drive thru

good luck  
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« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2014, 03:16:54 PM »

Eric

I'm liking the pole barn idea more and more. Going to talk to my contractor about that.  I could do the slab later. 

Bruce
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« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2014, 03:17:18 PM »

Eric

I'm liking the pole barn idea more and more. Going to talk to my contractor about that.  I could do the slab later. 

Bruce
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2014, 01:36:33 AM »

Clearly my hind site is better that my fore site, built my coach/shop garage 40 X 60, should have been little larger.
Buiggest regret, did not install a septic system.
Otherwise it is a great building, 72 yds 4000 psi with fiber & rebar on 3" stands, pumped in with pump truck, monlithic pad, 14 X 14 and 10 X 10 door plus 2 passage doors, overhead electric insualted doors, and 2 post off set lift.
Great place for the coach, 340 Dodge Dart, 800 CanAm ATV and EZ Go golf cart.
Would do it again, larger and septic setup.
My man cave  Grin
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2014, 04:33:41 AM »

...  Would do it again, larger and septic setup.
My man cave  Grin      Dave M   

        Except for the fact that I'm on city water, that's me exactly!   What you've got sounds nice, tho,  Dave.
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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2014, 11:38:02 AM »

Bruce,  a few considerations if thinking of other than concrete slab for a floor depending on what type of work you may do on your bus in that shop.
  • Crushed stone can be pretty uncomfortable to crawl around on and lay on your back for extended periods working under your bus.
  • Jacks and stands/cribbing may not be as solid/safe on non-concrete.
  • You can't roll a tool box on crushed stone, and even a two wheeled dolly with pneumatic tires carrying something heavy on it can be a challenge
  • Likewise, if you ever need to pull the engine out, a rolling engine cart won't work so well on anything but smooth concrete.
  • Ladders won't be as solid on crushed stone.

Eric and Bruce

Eric has got me thinking that a pole barn without a slab may be the least expensive way to go.  I would have a small slab for the 2 post car lift and use crushed stone for the rest of the area.

I've got a lot to look into now, thanks to you all!

Bruce
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« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2014, 03:19:14 PM »

Don't forget about your utilities,I picked up some 3"plastic tubing & ran it up against the wall(through the footer) for the electric & water so I didn't have to make holes through the walls for it.
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« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2014, 04:12:58 PM »

Sewmun

I'm running power down from the house in conduit, glad you mentioned water, wasn't thinking about that and it would be great to have.

Thanks for the advice!

Bruce
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« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2014, 05:50:14 PM »

When you do your slab lay in some pex 1/2 " pipe with risers where you might want to use air for later with termination where you might want to put a big compressor?!..... Cool
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