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Author Topic: New guy with questions  (Read 4460 times)
Larry
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« on: December 07, 2006, 07:30:33 PM »

Howdy --

My name is Larry. I have thought about converting a bus or coach for several years but due to one thing or another over the years I haven't taken it any farther. Well I think I am in a position to take some baby steps toward my own rig.

Let me first admit that I am totally ignorant about buses, or anything that size. I've done my share of shade tree mechanic work over the years but never on anything the size of a coach. Because of this my first concern would be how mechanically dependable is a coach when compared to a schoolie? Would I be getting in over my head with a coach?

Following that is the fact that I am on a fixed income. What is a reasonable amount to expect for annual maintenance? Actual mileage annually would be less than 5000 miles and probably less than 2500 miles. I don't plan on touring. A few weekenders here and there with one 2000 mile round trip every 2 years is the most likely scenerio.

Okay - 2 questions to start but I betcha I'll have plenty more later!

Best to Ya's

Larry
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 10:20:25 PM »

The big over the road buses and transit buses are the most heavy duty vehicles made-besides big rig trucks, of course.  They are as reliable as a vehicle can get, but when they break, part for part they can cost 10 times more than a car to repair.  If you don't have to do any repairs that year, only general maintanence is needed.  With the low miles most do, oil change once a year is enough (I went 30 months, but I park inside in Calif [no big weather changes]).  Most of the older buses are mechanically controlled engines-mainly no electronics, so that eases that problem.  I put on 6 new tires earlier this year and they were $2900.00 mounted and balanced, just to give you an idea.  Personally, I was an over the road truck driver and have seen how a sticks and staples motorhome fairs in a crash.  For instance, the recent rear ender that happened, the driver just lost his legs (I realize that is bad enough).  I saw the duplicate crash on the Oklahoma turnpike where a motorhome driver fell asleep and ran into the back of a truck.  They removed both the man and wife in pieces and the motorhome was crushed the first 10ft.  So believe me, you pay to maintain these huge vehicles, but they are reliable and as safe as you can get in the event of a crash.  Stop delaying-get to work!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 11:19:33 PM »

Welcome, Larry. Skoolies are a step up from most motorhomes, reliability-wise, but aren't typically built for the "long haul" mileage expected of a transit or highway coach. Crowns and Gilligs are notable skoolie exceptions, and can make fine conversions. With your mileage expectations, a traditional skoolie wouldn't be out of the question, though... assuming you find a low-mileage candidate. I'd expect them to be a lot easier to work on, also, since they're more of a medium-duty chassis, and parts are more readily available and "truck-like". There's pros and cons of any chassis type you choose... ride quality, reliability, storage, convert-ability, top speed, MPG, aesthetics, etc.

Whatever type you choose, for good reliability, it's best to start with the cleanest bus you can afford. You might also choose to purchase a bus already converted, and save the work of converting one until you're convinced you like the lifestyle. For most sub-$100k conversions, at reasle very few folks ever make back even their outlay of cash spent on conversion, much less their hundreds of hours of time. Now, most folks that convert a coach could care less if they see any return on their investment... they do it for the satisfaction, pride of ownership, and doing it "their way."

Whatever bus you choose, have it "gone over" by someone that knows these beasts inside and out. Even then, there's no guarantees that something major won't break down. But if/ when it does... you've found the best spot on the Internet here for support and tech advice.

Be forewarned, it seems that many coaches for sale have "recent rebuilt" engines... but very few have the paperwork to back up this claim. I've seen (even bought) busses that claim to have "no smoke at startup" that could barely light off at 60 degrees... and then kill every mosquito in a 30 mile radius.

But I do hope you buy a bus and "step inside" this crazy hobby of ours. It's a lot of fun, and my family loves spending time together in ours. Heck, and I love just looking at mine. I even like the smell of diesel. It makes me think of going places.

Did I mention the word crazy yet...  Grin
Brian B.
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Brian Brown
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2006, 05:18:05 AM »

Howdy --

My name is Larry. I have thought about converting a bus or coach for several years but due to one thing or another over the years I haven't taken it any farther. Well I think I am in a position to take some baby steps toward my own rig.

Let me first admit that I am totally ignorant about buses, or anything that size. I've done my share of shade tree mechanic work over the years but never on anything the size of a coach. Because of this my first concern would be how mechanically dependable is a coach when compared to a schoolie? Would I be getting in over my head with a coach?

Following that is the fact that I am on a fixed income. What is a reasonable amount to expect for annual maintenance? Actual mileage annually would be less than 5000 miles and probably less than 2500 miles. I don't plan on touring. A few weekenders here and there with one 2000 mile round trip every 2 years is the most likely scenerio.

Okay - 2 questions to start but I betcha I'll have plenty more later!

Best to Ya's

Larry



Welcome to our incurable forum of madness Larry!

Just a few things to mention and random thoughts.

I've had all kinds of buses. Pretty much Everything from schoolies to antique (1935 ACF-Brill) to Transits to our present coach, a 1952 GMC PD-4103.

One thing I've found with ALL of them is to do your homework and learn how to do a good inspection and then take it to have it "Professionally" inspected. You will thank yourself in the long run.

One of Our Eagle owners on this board has found out first hand what buying with your heart instead of your head can cause.
Gary LaBombard has been working on his Eagle for 4 years and has only driven it once. The under carriage was in such poor condition that is has had to rebuilt from scratch. A true craftsman, Gary has taken his time and not been in a hurry. You would be well off to check out his website, http://community.webshots.com/user/converter101 and possibly talk him into letting you purchase one of his CD's.

If you want a schoolie, be prepared to pay less up front, but more for insurance, lower top end speed and narrower width. You will really miss that width! One problem I found was that the distance from the floor to the bottom of the window left a lot to be desired when selecting furniture and cabinets. Good points are a full frame on a Medium Duty chassis, ease of finding parts, and fairly square walls.

Transits are a good choice if you are looking for low initial cost with large bus capabilities.
Cons include lack of storage and low speed on the highway.
None of this is insurmountable, it just requires some creative enineering to build bays and figuring out where to store things.

Suburban Transits are a little easier than standard transits, USUALLY, because of already having highway gearing and sometimes bays already built in.

The Big highway coaches, although providing lot's of space and highway speeds can have outragious price in upkeep. They really aren't meant to sit for a long time, things have a way of going wrong, just from sitting.
Be aware that I would prefer never to go back to a schoolie, but for certain purposes, it is a really good choice. especially if you are interested in boondocking off road.

What ever you choose, good luck! and be sure to check out all of your options. Visiting as many rallies, gatherings and even surplus bus sales lots can give you insight on where and how to proceed.

IHTH,
Dallas
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2006, 08:20:54 AM »

One more point (actually have hundreds, but now..) schoolies, with the front truck hood, can be very hard to find insurance for.  Some of the schoolies have had bad engineering where some of the bodies have been completely sheared off the frame of the truck in a crash with not so good results.  The more recent ones are better though.  The front engine schoolie is considered to be a class C motorhome when done.  Even a giant motorhome using a Freightliner or Kenworth front end is still a class C and there are some high end RV resorts that restrict their customers to Class A only. Personally, I won't ever have to worry about those kinds of RV resorts since I don't frequent them because of my un-presumptious life style.  Ask more questions, we all love to answer them!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2006, 01:06:13 PM »

I haven't etched my decision in stone yet, but I am leaning heavily toward converting a schoolie. I took a look at Gary LaBombard's photo pages  Shocked WOW. My learning curve is failry sharp but the word overwhelmed is far to small if I were faced with Gary's situation. For me the unexpected expense would be devestating.

The more I think about it the more I think a flat nose school bus should be my first baby step. There are usually some activity buses for sale in the area. In fact there are two right now on ebay just south of Okla City which should go for under 5k. They would be candidates if I were ready to make a purchase.

The time to convert it is not a problem. All I have is time! There's plenty of time to make a decision also. I need to put about 2k in my bass boat this winter so I have till spring to think this through.

Are there particular flat nose buses that seem to be better suited to conversions than others? For example underfloor clearances for adding bays for generator, A/C, etc etc? Rear engine v/s front or mid-engine placements? Detroit or Cat and which one? Is there a particular auto trans that has issues? I suppose it boils down to - If it were you thinking schoolie what would be your bus choices and why?  Huh

Dang that's a big question Roll Eyes

Best to Ya

Larry
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2006, 05:04:57 PM »

Check out either the Crown or Gillig with mid mounted engine.  Advantages- made on a truck chassis so adding to the chassis isn't hard.  Detroit 6-71 is very reliable.  Crown disadvantage-the frame stops behind the rear axle with the trunk (very large) just in the back making it hard to make a trailer hitch.  I believe the Gillig was not built that way. 
I converted a transit bus.  They are very strongly built.  Only real disadvantage is the low gearing.  I had mine regeared to comfortably cruise at 65, which is enough for me.  Transits have 6'10" head room, and I have plenty of storage-in fact lots of room yet that I haven't used.  There's a section behind the rear door that's empty that I probably will fill in.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2006, 06:13:59 PM »

Tom C,

If you don't mind me asking, about how much does it cost to get a transit re-geared?

I am also a newby searching for that first piece of bus heaven.
I have also been looking at skoolies or transits or coaches. I think the overall price may keep me out of a coach longer than I want to. But, the transit or skoolie question still nags at me.

Thank you,
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Larry
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 07:24:37 PM »

Thanks Tom - I wasn't aware that transists had that much head room. At 6'3" headroom is a definate consideration and it's something a schoolie doesn't have unless I raise the roof. Hmmm - transit - back to a coach size rig - it has two entry doors - decisions decisions - hmmm - and I was so close to making a mental commitment on converting a school bus! Thanks Tom  Cheesy

Larry

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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2006, 07:37:53 PM »

It's easier to find a skoolie in good shape, with low miles, since school districts often upgrade their units when funding becomes available. Transit agencies often do the same with their transit busses.

Most highway coaches, OTOH, tend to have the wheels run off of them by charters or Greyhound, and they only give them up when maint. becomes prohibitively expen$ive. There are a few highway coaches available at auction from transit authority fleets occasionally, when used in suburban service. Dallas' DART has let go a steady stream of 102As in recent years. I went to one auction a few years back, and those units that weren't canibalized for parts, seemed to be in good shape.

Highway coach vs. transit vs. skoolie is a BIG decision. There's trade-offs in each. You'll have to examine your lifestyle and see which one fits your need the best. I, for one, wouldn't want to live without my cavernous bays, that hold my tools, roadside equip., bicycles, campstuff, etc. But I have a family of five to keep provisioned and entertained on cross-country trips. Someone tooling to a local lake or backwoods spot wouldn't want/ need a highway coach.

A GMC RTS is a great choice in a transit. I've seem some beautiful RTS conversions out there, and am told they drive like a car. Shells are cheap and GMCs are engineering marvels, IMHO. And busnut ingenuity can create storage where none existed.

I don't know much about skoolies. They tend to get short shrift, and you'll have to have a nice conversion to avoid being labeled some "hippie." Stick with the flat-noses, for sure. One with rear engine made by Thomas or Blue Bird would be good choices. But a nice 40' twin-screw Crown would be a nice find, indeed. These were run by many Western school districts (no corrosion), and are told to be the MPG champs of the busworld (12-14mpg not unheard of).

Just some more thoughts...
Brian B.
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Brian Brown
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2006, 08:06:09 PM »

Larry,

Welcome.  I am in the same boat as you as far as being a new guy.  You have found a group of people with a ton of knowlege and willingness to help.  Heed their advice.  It will save you in the long run.  I am still in the looking and deciding stage but have ruled out a schoolie cause the wife already said NO!  Take your time, learn lots and enjoy the insanity.

Frank
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2006, 06:17:49 AM »

There was a great flat front skookie conversion featured in Bus Conversions not too long ago - within the last year maybe?  It turned out looking really good - easily able to park next to anything on the road.  If you are serious about converting then my advice is to phone up Bus Conversions and order about 3 years of back issues.  When they arrive sit yourself down for several nights and learn from everyone else's experiences.

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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2006, 07:10:50 AM »

I recall reading in the past about some people having problems obtaining insurance on a schoolie. Make sure your insurance company will cover it, or you can find a company that will.
I would also suggest you do some Internet searching for boards that specialize in schoolies and ask questions there. Unfortunately I do not have any links that will help you find them, but I am certain that somebody on this board will help.
Richard
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2006, 10:05:10 AM »

Larry -

Look for the thread on this board for "Newbie looking for a bus" to read my comments on this.

 Wink

Click here for the thread:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=2703.0

Richard
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2006, 01:20:16 PM »

Thanks everyone for all the great input. I was getting close to making a commitment to converting a skoolie but now I am backing off, a little.
Over the years I have read everything I could find on the internet and picked apart every conversion in progress photo I saw. Finances dictate a skoolie for less stress but long term a highway coach is the more practical choice. A real delima!
Today while reading everyones posts then jumping to every URL posted for more reading and going back over all the url's I have saved I found myself back at the same crossroads where I started. I leaned back ijn my chair and reminded myself of what I had taught my kids as they were growing up. "Don't settle for something less than what you really want," was intended to encourage them to save their allowance until they colud afford that special toy or whatever it was their heart said they "must" have.
With that thought in mind I began asking myself what I really wanted, or what I really needed. Once I got honest with myself the decision between skoolie and highway coach was clear. It will be a highway coach. The nail in the coffin, so to speak, was I finally admitted to myself that I really wanted to go fulltime at some point in the future. Dang - what am I thinking? Shut up Larry!

Saw a 74 GM 4905 owned by a church not far from here! It's for sale! They say it "still runs good." Gonna go look Monday. Dang this Okie is "nervous as a treed cat."

Larry

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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2006, 01:26:25 PM »

Larry,

Maintenance is everything, and church groups have bad reputation for skimping on maintenance, which in turn typically makes those coaches a poor investment over time.  This group may be different, but you can tell from their records or lack thereof.
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2006, 02:00:14 PM »

I second Jim's points. I briefly owned a church's MC8 and it was the most poorly-maintained thing I've ever seen... the air filter was almost full of sludge, there was coolant in the oil, the brakes were shot, air dryer never serviced, and they had been running it on 15w-40.

Buffs are great coaches. I have one myself. It'd be greater still if someone has put an automatic in it, since it lends itself better to camping than the overly-tall first and reverse on the 4-speed.

But heed all of our advice here about churches, and inspect that baby head to toe. Demand records, etc.  I truly believe most churches expect God to take care of the maintenance!

HTH,
Brian
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Brian Brown
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2006, 04:16:59 PM »

Thanks for the heads up! I'll be sure to ask lots of maintenance questions. If I'm lucky someone at their church who knows what he's doing has been taking care of everything. But I'm not holding my breath.
They are asking 5k for the bus. In my opinion everything should be good to go for that money. Anything less will be reflected in my offer. Things such as massive amounts of smoke on startup, continued smoking after warm up and especially rust rot will kill any offer. I'll write up a check list for inspection. Or is there one online somewhere? Any suggestions on what to ask about and look for? Being as ignorant about coaches as I am I know I will overlook something major.
I'll have my camera for pics and take lotsa notes. No purchase on first visit. Gotta do some research for a few days after, and ask lots of questions here  Grin

Larry
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« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2006, 05:44:52 PM »

You're expecting an awful lot if you think a $5,000 bus is going to be ready to roll with no problems.  I would expect you will find at least one of your three problems.

My advice would be to find a bus garage (not a truck garage) to look it over before purchase.  A good bus mechanic knows a lot about this buses and things to look for.

Brian Elfert
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2006, 07:12:17 PM »

Larry, you might "shout out" where you live and see if another experienced busnut would be willing to check out the coach with you. I, for one, love busses wouldn't blink at the opportunity to check one out with a wannabee, and I know others here are like that, too.

Main thing to check are the expen$ive items... corrosion (expect some, but not a lot), engine, tranny, brakes, and suspension components (radius rod bushings, exp.). Tires can get spendy, but there's only six on a Buff. Do check the fronts for uneven wear, possibly indicating alignment issues. Air bellows wouldn't be a deal-killer for me, since they're fairly cheap and easy to replace. With the DD3 parking brakes, make sure they release and set immediately. Fixing those can get pricy in a hurry.

Any 30 year-old coach will need some attention on the part of the owner. But you want to avoid inheriting someone else's issues.

Do take pics, post 'em someplace, take lots of notes, and we'll be happy to be your "eyes and ears". Brian E's. advice about a bus mechanic is sound. Depending on where you live, you might struggle to find someone qualified. If you have a transit authority nearby, their garage would be the best place to ask around for contacts.

HTH,
Brian B.
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2006, 07:18:59 PM »

It can cost between $1,500 and $2,000 to regear a V drive.  I have 4.625 with the V730 and 11R-24.5 gives me 65mph at 2100rpm.  4.11 would give 1800rpm at 65 mph-which I'd like to change to, but is hard to find, and cruising at 65mph is just fine with me.  With the V730 only being a 3 speed, you have to watch your startability when getting high speed gears.

I am also 6'3" and my AMGeneral 10240B has a flatter roof than most.  So with my shower stall about 10 inches out from the wall, can easily stand in it.  Also, then you don't have to go through the massive job of raising the roof.  Suggest you look at the MCI 102C3.  It has 6'10" headroom also, with big under storage, and can still get parts for it.  Has a straight drive too.  I only did the transit because I didn't have the money to buy an MCI/Prevost/Van Hool/Setra type.  While you'll save money with the transit (I paid $4,000), you'll spend alot of time with the bus blocked up and on your back making brackets and mountings for the tanks and creating a place for the generator (I have a 10kw Powertech) and storage (I created a 99" wide x 22" high x 66" long under storage that isn't full and holds lots).  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2006, 03:23:20 PM »

Back to the drawing board - the bus has been sold.
Glad I found out before driving half way across the state!

Larry


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« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2006, 06:01:09 PM »

All buses have "stress" associated with ownership.  Just different sources.   I'd forgo the skoolie thing unless you plan to use it in "no rules" camping areas.  Most campgrounds (a good many campgrounds?) won't allow "hoods" to park.  That's why they ask you to describe the year model and make of your MH when making reservations. 
A flat-nosed pusher can be made nice, but won't have the storage capacity of an OTR coach.   The roof will have to be raised on a skoolie to be useful as an RV.  If you're less than 6' tall,  transits and most  highway coaches have enough headroom to live comfortably.   
A skoolie will have almost no value when completed...while a highway coach may get your parts investment back...you'll not likely see any return on time...such is how hobbies go.    The costs to convert either skoolie or highway coach would be about the same.  Cost of the  shell would be the difference. 
I would think you could find an MC5 thru 9, or a GM for a reasonable price.   Hope you're a mechanic! Wink
Check'em out carefully before buying.  You can get soooo screwed with a used coach.
About the only thing that's really less expensive on a skoolie would be maintenance.   Transits and  highway coaches requires a good bit of maintenance.    But, the ride is better,  safety is better, bay storage on highway coaches is great.
If you can do your own maintenance, you're halfway there!
Good luck, JR
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2006, 09:27:53 AM »

Larry,

You mentioned OKC in on of your posts. Are you in or near OKC? If so, or even if yer not but considering buying a unit from that area I'd highly reccomend you get ahold of Ed at Jefferson Bus in OKC for an inspection! Just my opinion, no charge, and have fun! BK  Grin
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2006, 02:57:14 PM »

Hey thanks for the heads up about ED. I haven't made any commitments on a coach yet but the odds are that more will be found in the OKC area than near me. I am in N.E. Oklahoma about 45 minutes east of Tulsa.

I've still have the skoolie option open. My dad suggested that because I have never done a conversion I should do a skoolie first and then upgrade to a highway coach. Hmmmm - sounds like twice the work to me. His idea is that since I have a travel trailer for parts I could build a rolling fishing camp first and do it on the cheap.
With that in mind I stopped by the local school bus garage and talked with an old friend who is the head mechanic there. He and the garage manager pointed out a bus they say has no mechanical problems whatsoever and is only being taken offline due to age.
It's a 1989 International (mfg date) - Ward body - ameritrans - (sold as new 1991)
International 7.3L diesel w/162k miles - allison 4sp auto
slick for it's age - clean and straight -- tires 75% all around

They said their buses usualy sell in the $1,000 range give or take a few hundred.
I'm thinking $1500 may buy it.

What is it really worth? What would be a good bid?

Looking for opinions or comments - I promise not to blame anyone if I pay to much or fail to bid enough. Making the proper bid is my responsibility and I'm just looking for input.

Thanks

Larry
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2006, 06:38:52 PM »

Hello

TomC.... are you sure about that MCI headroom?

I think its a little shorter than 6'10" inside, unless its some raised converter coach. I'm 6'4" and have "sufficient" clearance in a stock seated 102 D, E and J. "Sufficient" being "somewhat" better than my MC8!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
H3Jim
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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2006, 07:26:02 PM »

It seems like generally schoolies go for $500 to $1000.  But I agree, its sounds like twice the work.  I'd go for the best shell you can afford that meets your needs.

6'10" is what the specs say for the MCI 102C3, although I've never actually measured one.  They are definitely taller than most others
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Jim Stewart
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« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2006, 07:33:39 PM »

If you are young enough to enjoy your efforts do it your way, once or twice. Listen to your inner voice.

I would suggest designing what you want on paper first then see what works. Also what fits in your budget.

If I might make an observation. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. There might not be a second. They include a lot of hard work and time, plus you must have the funds to do it.

A lot of folks start out on their dream coach then get bummed out, not enough time or money or both.

Just my thoughts,

Paul

Dreamscape
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RJ
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« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2006, 07:54:42 PM »

Larry -

Read my comments regarding a skoolie in this thread asked by Kevin, a newbie like yourself:

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=2733.0

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2006, 08:13:11 PM »

I'm not sure what happened to my post I just sent but it didn't post - hmmm

Anyway - thanks to everyone for their comments. I have been switching back and forth between coach and skoolie but after today I have to draw a line in the sand and go with a skoolie. I know many of you will roll your eyes and some will read no further than the first sentence, but the truth is my physical limitations and finances dictate that a coach is biting off more than I can chew.

Best to Ya's

Larry
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2006, 10:02:45 PM »

stay in touch and be sure to ask us questions as they come up.
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Jim Stewart
El Cajon, Ca.  (San Diego area)

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« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2006, 01:26:56 AM »

Nothing wrong with a skoolie. I'm totally happy with mine. Built tuff and won't drag bottom going in and out of parking lots and down logging roads to that favorite fishing hole. Very easy engine and tranny upgrade. Good luck.
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kevinksu2005
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2006, 08:52:38 AM »

Is there anyway to get some photos and ideas from your skoolie?
What kind of bus is it? Make, model, eninge, tranny, length, ...
Email to me if you wouldn't mind.
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NJT5047
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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2006, 07:32:28 PM »

OK.  Skoolie it is.  Have you seen the skoolies that were used in the Outback commercials?   There were two of them, a Ford and an IH.  Way too cool!  They have 4WD and off road tires and lift kits.  Shocked   All you'd need is an out of service  4WD boom truck like so many power companies use and strip out the front drive and transmission/transfer case.  Probably want the drive axle too so that the ratios and wheel lug designs match.   Then you could really get into the "choice" parking areas.   This would be a really interesting project for someone with the ability to handle the transmissions and axles.   
We go to cross country and motorcross races and this sort of contraption would be ideal...my young'n can do this one...done mine...more or less.  Wink
Dream on!   JR

 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2006, 10:12:37 AM »

Is there a computer program available that will do bus floorplans and schematics?
I have "3D Home" but it is basically useless for anything but a house.

Hi JR - yeh I saw the commercials and those type of conversions are amazing! In my younger days I rode flat-track a lot. We have a private 1/8th mile "Mad Dog" track that all the kids, and a few adults, play on all winter. My racing days are over but it's a hoot watching the kids and teaching them how to keep their machines running and be competitive.

Larry
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If our spirit lives forever I'm no more dead now than I'll ever be
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