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Author Topic: Jake Brakes on an 8V92  (Read 2072 times)
scanzel
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« on: February 06, 2014, 10:54:12 AM »

Would having Jake brakes installed on an 8V92 be worth the cost ? I have the 8V92 with the Spicer 6 speed standard. I have seen some at a government surplus site that are either rebuilt or new and want to possible bid on them but need some more info from the experts out there. What other items would be needed for them to work ? If doable what should I expect on cost for a complete working install ?
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Steve Canzellarini
Berlin, CT
1989 Prevost XL
TomC
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 12:08:34 PM »

You'll have to either get the tall valve covers, or the spacers to use your existing valve covers-the tall valve covers work better-less leaks. Just a matter of mounting, wiring them. I can tell you that properly adjusted jake brakes on a 8V-92 is effective enough to hold an 80,000lbs load going down a 6% grade at 28mph without service brakes. I did that for years on the Grapevine hauling 80,000lb loads of beer and beverages. The key is getting someone like Don Fairchild to adjust them tight enough to be effective. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
akroyaleagle
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 12:28:03 PM »

As Tom said. You would need the tall valve covers.

Probably need to rework the air horn also to clear the tall covers.

Used is iffy.  Plan to have them rebuilt.

They will work great.

You will find folks that can install them a lot closer to you than Bakersfield.

Try to get them set to 55 thousands. 60 will work, but not as well. 65, in my opinion is too loose.

Clifford might have a set he would let go. He had a buffer switch a little bit ago also. If he does, you will not go wrong there. He might also know where the tall covers are.
If he doesn't, let us know. there are other places. Sometimes on ebay.

Good Luck,
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Joe Laird
'78 Eagle
Huron, South Dakota
akroyaleagle
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 12:39:48 PM »

Here's a reputable dealer closer to you.

http://bernhardbus.com/JAKEBRAKE.html

Here's another, Tell Don I recommended him.

http://hdd.mrwebsites.ca/pdfs/431_Nisku%20Heavy%20Truck.pdf
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 12:47:11 PM by akroyaleagle » Logged

Joe Laird
'78 Eagle
Huron, South Dakota
RJ
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 02:46:35 PM »

Would having Jake brakes installed on an 8V92 be worth the cost?

Steve -

Cliff's Notes version of the Reader's Digest version of an answer to your question:

YES!!!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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Fresno CA
wg4t50
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 05:15:41 PM »

Work best at a higher RPM like 2100 or so
Dave M
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luvrbus
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 05:44:28 PM »

If that is a DDEC engine in you 89 Prevost it's not worth the price,even with a mechanical engine you are going to have 1 to 2 days in labor, if you buy a set be sure to get all the parts the 500 dollar sets can turn into money in a hurry fwiw
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Lin
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 06:00:09 PM »

Jakes are wonderful!  I do not know the issues with mounting them with your particular set up, but I would just about consider it essential.  Of course, I think automatic transmissions are great too, so what do I know.

If you do get one, set it up for 2 stage use.  Although there are some very reputable people that condemn the idea, I actually find that I use them in the first stage more than I use it on full.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 06:28:46 PM »

I don't condemn the 2 stage brake I just think it is a waste of wire with 3:33 rear gear in 4th with a Allison it does nothing creeping down a hill in 1st or 2nd with lower rear gears they work ok not great compared to a 4 stroke engine
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lostagain
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 08:53:30 PM »

This is only my personal opinion, but while Jakes are nice to have, they are certainly not essential. Especially on a two stroke where they are not as effective as on a modern four stroke. When I drove bus, all with two stroke DDs, we didn't have Jakes. We went down the hills in whatever gear was necessary to not use the brakes much. Yes that is one or two gears lower than you would use with Jakes. But this is how we were trained, and it was not a problem. I like Jakes like the next guy, who wouldn't? But I guess you have to weigh the cost against the benefits.

JC
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JC
Invermere, BC
1977 MC5C, 6V92/HT740
TomC
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 09:11:30 PM »

JC-as stated before, the Jakes for a 8V-92 are VERY effective-just have to have someone who knows what they are doing to get the best performance. I live in California, and there is no way out of Los Angeles but go over mountains (not like the hills on the east coast). Rule of thumb-if you're going to come west of interstate 25, then you really should have Jake brakes. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 04:15:13 AM »

Good grief the adjustment thing all started with the old 71 and the master housing that was set on 0.65 one does not have the luxury with the 71/92 masters you set the things on 0.59 with the Jacob gauge and you have what you have unless one wants to spend the big bucks to shim or add valve springs to the engine.

Just in case some don't know Don Fairchild and I are the best of friends so no way am I putting him down, back to question are they worth the price for Scanzel with a 6 speed manual transmission I doubt it but if he wants a set I have plenty with the valve covers,bridges,oil bolts and buffer switches lol

good luck 
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tomhamrick
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 08:01:48 AM »

I set the Jakes on our Eagle 6V92 at 57 and I would have to let off them to keep from slowing down too much on a 3 mile 6% grade near home. That bus weighed 32,000 pounds and we were towing a car. Our current coach is 42,000 pounds + the car and has a DDEC 2 8V92. I don't think the Jakes are adjusted as tight and I have not checked them, but it will maintain speed or maybe slow just a little on the same 3 mile 6% grade. I like not having to use the brakes in the mountains so it is worth it for me.
As Clifford says just make sure you are getting all the needed parts.
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Tom Hamrick
1991 Prevost H3-40 VIP
1981 Eagle 10
Forest City, NC
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2014, 08:12:34 AM »

You better be careful setting the DDEC engine @ .57 Tom they have a different cam lift than your mechanical 6V92 had  

This adjustment thing drives me crazy the Jakes releases the compression using 2 valves out of the 4 what difference is a 2 to 5 thousands setting going to make releasing the compression ? It is 0.59 for me just like Jake says I am not about to bend 2 valves fooling around with the adjustment JMW good oil pressure is your best friend on Jakes on a 2 stroke engine
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 08:36:34 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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wg4t50
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2014, 01:04:07 PM »

Having sperience with em jakes, I must say they are not idiot proof, for an experienced driver, they are great, for the typical car/pickup operator they need to get some sperience to fully appreciate the goodness of the Jakes and clearly not as effective as on a 4 stroke, but still much better than without.
The best Jake sperience for me was on the 12V-71 mini mufflers in a tunnel, Oh Yea !!
Cars stopped behind the MC7 in tunnels. Truely amazing how a little sound changes minds.
Dave M
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eagle19952
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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 02:31:37 PM »

My experience with Jakes is with mid 70's early 80's 71 series motors in heavy 12 yard end dumps. and I can see the need on rock hauls and D1 type heavy gravel loads....as in overloaded.
My Eagle doesn't have them and frankly I see no need.
Every grade in the Sierras, Arizona and NM, Idaho, from Las Vegas to Tucson and all of the Alaska Hwy. thru The Canadian Rocky's and dog knows where else and I had no loss of lunch or gone in to extreme pucker seizure Grin Grin Grin.

Would they be nice...maybe, but that are not necessary.
Do I have some, yes. But in 10 years, I have not come off a grade and said I won't do that again without installing my Jakes. And that includes Tioga Pass up and down into Lee Vining, CA.
Mine are in a milk crate wrapped in oil absorbents, plenty well preserved....I should raffle them off... Grin
Like Clifford says, just my way.

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muldoonman
1991 Prevost 8V92TA
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« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 03:17:59 PM »

Don't know about the cost but I wouldn't do without mine on my 91. Have 2 different setting with a toggle switch on dash.  Don't use the brakes much if you drive looking ahead. It will shut it down fairly well. PS, the sound is great also.

glen s.
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wg4t50
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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2014, 04:20:51 PM »

Gee, 40+ yrs ago when i drove the 318 & 13 speed, never had the Jake brakes, wanted them, but the company was not about to install them on the trucks, so you learned mountains with out them, never an issue, but going down some mountains was a slow trip.
Today I enjoy the Allison retarder that provides 2,000 ft lb restriction to driveshaft, depending on the gear, it can be an eye opener as everything comes forward.  Much better than the Jake setup, along with the disk brakes, it stops almost like a car, impressibe.
Dave M
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TomC
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« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2014, 07:19:46 PM »

Jake brakes are so accepted by the trucking industry, that the new Detroit DD13, DD15, DD16 (OM471, OM472, OM473 Mercedes-Benz versions) have Jake brakes built in as standard equipment. Cummins ISX12 is an option. ISX15 it is also built in.
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
eagle19952
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« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2014, 08:13:48 PM »

Jake brakes are so accepted by the trucking industry, that the new Detroit DD13, DD15, DD16 (OM471, OM472, OM473 Mercedes-Benz versions) have Jake brakes built in as standard equipment. Cummins ISX12 is an option. ISX15 it is also built in.

That's great they are all 4 strokes.....if I had a bundle of cash I'd have a retarder. That would do for a 2 stroke what Jakes do for a 4.
back in the day they used Spicers and 5&4 speed for a reason.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2014, 04:37:55 AM »

The integrated engines brakes on the new engines are nothing like a old Jake you set those for the speed like a cruise control one wants to go down a grade and forget it like 40 mph that is where it will stay without ever touching a switch if it starts to speed up the computer will change to a lower gear or a different stage some of those have the Variable Valve Actuation for smog control along with rocker stop and easy start those are high tech not just a off and on switch the driver flips

 I went back and did my home work the Jakes came out in 1961 for Cummins only, the first year for a Jakes on a 2 stroke was 1967 on the 12v71 fwiw lol I wonder how Greyhound and Trailways ever ran coast to coast without Jakes in the 60's and 70's    

Jake does not support the older Jakes for the 2 stroke all parts now are made by PacBrake that is where the DD dealers buy theirs and that is where I buy mine also to stay away from the DD dealer high prices like the jumper tube o-ring for $3.85 they charge  

good luck    
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 04:51:27 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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chessie4905
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2014, 09:52:43 AM »

   Let's see; going down a long mountain grade, one of those oil seals start leaking all over the brake shoes on one side of 2 axle conversion coach....suddenly....there is a major obstruction blocking both lanes around the curve.....grease packed bearings Smiley and or jake brakes for piece of mind.
   Seriously though, I desire jakes on the two stroke engine coaches, even though careful and attentive driving got me down all the mountain grades on our 4104. If I hadn't move to the 4905 (with jakes), I would've added them to former ride.
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2014, 10:46:17 AM »

Jakes are not all that popular to day on buses 90% will have a retarder with the 4 stroke engines 
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2014, 11:26:16 AM »

Clifford,

Do you have a source for reasonably priced jumper tube seal rings? That's the last item I need to complete my set.

Thanks,

Bob
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P8M4905A-1308, 8V71 w/V730
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Lin
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2014, 11:26:49 AM »

It is not a matter of a mere loyalty to Jakes.  The issue is having some sort of decent auxiliary braking.  Jakes just happen to be common and a relatively cheap and easy retrofit.  One can do without extra braking just as one can do without an automatic transmission.  However, they both provide a huge enhancement to the experience.  Plus Jakes increase safety significantly also.

Anyway, you can start a fire with a match or by rubbing some sticks together. It's just personal preference.
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2014, 12:13:42 PM »

Bob I get mine from TecBrake or call Pacbrake and they will give you a name of a distributor in your area,just drop me a address and I will drop you 4 in a envelope I have plenty and owe you one anyway do you need any jumper tube ?, lol I need to get off this Jake brake post I am seeing feathers starting to ruffle 

good luck 
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Mike in GA
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2014, 12:48:46 PM »

I have a mechanical 8v92 TA with a five speed. Bought used Jakes on eBay at a great price. Apparently they came out of an Oregon log truck. When my mechanic looked at them he said they all needed to be rebuilt, and so I had to buy a kit that was more than the 'great deal' I had gotten on eBay. Then I had to find a buffer switch and high valve covers. Then it took my mechanic a couple of days (or perhaps less I don't recall) to do the installation.
     It was pricey, but in the end I have to say I love them. Real piece of mind coming down Fancy Gap or some of those western passes.
     YMMV.
Mike in GA
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2014, 01:07:56 PM »

One needs to know what he is buying when it comes to Jakes, Red Ryder bought a set that was so wore out in the control valve port there was no rebuilding to his he had to purchase another set he could have paid the $2,034.00 for a new set after he was through
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« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2014, 01:19:22 PM »

Clifford,

Thanks for the generous offer and the info. I sent you an email with my address.

Bob
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