Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
December 20, 2014, 03:30:34 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: New ownership began September 1st 2012!  Please send any comments to info@busconversions.com
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Stuck in Modesto  (Read 3514 times)
qayqayt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 111





Ignore
« on: February 12, 2014, 11:08:49 AM »

We are stranded in Modesto, CA and are looking for advice and assistance.  Last Saturday we left Sacramento heading south to Bakersfield.  To make a long story short, I found coolant in the oil.  We managed to drive the coach to a small diesel shop here in Modesto.  They removed the head on one side of the engine and want $12,000 for a rebuild.  Our bus has the 8V71 Detroit Diesel engine with a V730 automatic transmission. 

I went to Mello Truck here in town on the advice of the local bus company and they have a used engine they can put in for about $10,000.

I don’t know yet how much the current work is going to cost us and the shop owner has been patient and very accommodating. There is not much point in having him re-assemble the head because I can’t drive the bus without getting it fixed.  We live in Vancouver, Canada and it will cost $6,000 to tow the bus home.

I have a friend back home who got a used 8V71 engine purchased and installed for $4,000.  Does that sound reasonable here and can an 8V71 be found anywhere in this part of California?  I considered getting the bus towed up to Williams CA where I hear there is a DD guru, but he’s not answering his phone at any hour and so far not returning my calls.  Besides I don’t think the cost to tow the bus that far would be feasible. 

We can’t stay in our coach while this is going on so time is also a factor.  Luckily we tow a car and we’re mobile.  Before I send it to scrap, any ideas?

Bryan
GMC PD-4108
Logged

Bryan
Vancouver BC
GM PD-4108
Mex-Busnut
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1136





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 11:15:36 AM »

So sorry to hear of your bad situation. Wish I could help some how!
Logged

Dr. Steve, San Juan del Río, Querétaro, Mexico, North America, Planet Earth, Milky Way.
1981 Dina Olímpico (Flxible Flxliner clone), 6V92TA Detroit Diesel
Rockwell model RM135A 9-speed manual tranny.
Jake brakes
100 miles North West of Mexico City, Mexico. 6,800 feet altitude.
Ed Hackenbruch
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2478




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 11:22:51 AM »

 Bryan,  any used engine is gonna be a crap shoot....will it last a thousand miles? a hundred thousand?.  If you can afford it, your best bet would be to rebuild it, then you know for sure what you have.  Maybe Don Fairchild in Bakersfield will be able to help you out with info and choices. Good luck.
Logged

1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
lostagain
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1618


MC5C




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 11:24:32 AM »

Call RJ in Fresno, five five nine two six zero four one zero six. He will know where to send you. Also try Don Fairchild in Bakersfield, CCTSKIT.COM, 661-391-4520. His cell: six six one three O one four six four eight.

Good luck.

JC
Logged

JC
Invermere, BC
1977 MC5C, 6V92/HT740
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13126




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 12:50:11 PM »

Did you spin a bearing on crank if not just repair the engine it is a common practice to repair just one cylinder find out why they want to rebuild the engine besides the money  

You are in the wrong state looking for a used 8v71 I don't how the guy selling a used 71 series is going to handle that deal with CARB the take out engines have to be certified by CARB  

If you can get to Hillsboro OR if Don cannot help the best 2 stroke shop on the west coast is located there Hillsboro Diesel fwiw 12,000 is not bad for out of frame rebuild but a little steep for a in frame job,decision time for you is the bus worth 12 to 15 grand for a engine 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 01:01:48 PM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Sunchaser Art
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11





Ignore
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 07:55:50 PM »

We're a bit south in Riverside County CA, but $12K sounds very good for a complete rebuild.  I'm guessing you would be looking at close to $17-20K to pull the engine &trans, rebuild the engine (completely), and re-install.  If it was my choice, I'd go with a complete rebuild (with good quality parts) over a used motor.

If you're heading south and you need anything, or just want to kick-and-scream, give a call at (951) 243-4469.

Art
Logged
hatchhome
Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks your NUTS!
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


My wife is looking for the bus nut cure.




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 09:15:16 PM »

Sorry to hear of your troubles Art.  I'm having a hard time understanding why the cost is so high to either rebuild or to put in a used motor.  I have found several running used motors near me on Craigslist for less then 1500. A rebuild kit is 1500 on ebay.  Now I know labor is involved and I don't have the tools 2 do the job but.  $10,000 in labor?  With the deals on gm buses right now u would be better off scrapping any bus then repair and buy a different one.  (not advocating scrapping buses)  What am I missing? 
Logged

Cameron Hatch
New Orleans, LA
504-250-4838
Timkar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 310





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 09:25:40 PM »

Had water in oil before on an 8V71, changed head gasket, changed oil, timed injectors, etc  and was good to go....Need more info before I would do a rebuild. How much coolant are we talking about?
Trying to figure out why they removed head before pressure testing it.....
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:03:45 PM by Timkar » Logged

Cawston, British Columbia
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13126




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 03:13:16 AM »

His bus if original probably has the old style 71 dry cylinder engine if so it would take a lot of soul searching for me to rebuild it at any price  

If he didn't spin a bearing and for 12 grand sounds like it did not spin a bearing like Tim repair the sucker and go down the road to home

Hatchhome those $1500 engine kits( some are junk) are only the beginning I can remember when Stewart and Stevenson their standard price was 100 bucks a cylinder with labor to overhaul any 2 stroke engine times have changed try 2000 bucks + now for each cylinder

 I feel for this guy but he is to far away for me to offer any help I wish him luck there is a 4107 fairly clean for sale on the BNO that needs a engine for 2500 or best offer fwiw
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 04:39:06 AM by luvrbus » Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Gary W
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 08:46:57 AM »

Bryan

Sorry to hear about your break down, why can't you stay in your coach  while repairs are made? We stayed in a repair shop in Hemet Ca while they repaired our coach, they just locked the gates at night and we stayed in the coach . Good luck.

 Gary
 
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6973





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 10:17:28 AM »

As said before, buying a used engine is a crap shoot-will probably have much problems down the road. If you're going to keep the bus for at least 5 years, have it rebuilt. It sounds like a lot of money, but really is not. Bus converters choose to use commercial buses that have heavy duty drive trains that take much abuse and just keep running (which means $$$$ when they break). Now the engine needs some attention. A good rebuild can be the last time the engine needs serious attention.

When I bought my bus, the engine had been rebuild 64,000miles ago-the bus company put new speedos in when the bus was rebuilt. But-it was a down and dirty rebuild that did not have the cylinder liners sized properly. I ended up boring the cylinder block out .010, using oversize cylinder liners, but able to reuse the pistons. Replace one head-and that was $11,000 14 years ago. The rebuild was so good, I was able to turbo the engine without any piston change. Now have 30,000 miles on the engine and it runs like a top. Rebuild your engine-you'll be the most pleased about it. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
B_K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 486




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2014, 10:50:14 AM »

Try giving Don a call before making a decision. I just got off the phone w/him and he said he was puzzled why they had a head off it before pressure testing the cooling system first! 

He can give you some ideas and he also knows where there are some 6V92 DDEC II or III's w/V730 transmissions are on RTS cradles that would make for a excellent upgrade swap if you wanted to go that way instead of putting $ into the 8V71! 

JC aka Lostagain posted both his #'s above. (I use the cell # as I hardly ever catch him at the shop!)

Grin  BK  Grin
Logged
qayqayt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 111





Ignore
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 05:39:54 PM »

Thanks guys for all the suggestions.  Back on Saturday I called RJ Long and he suggested that I call the local charter bus company and see if they do outside work, or if they can recommend a shop.  The problem was that it was Saturday and nobody was open.  We stopped at a rad shop and that's where I pulled the dip stick and found the coolant in the oil.  Earlier that morning as I was doing my pre-trip inspection, the oil looked fine but the coolant was down.  I added coolant and we headed south.  As we were getting to Modesto, the temperature was starting to creep up, so I pulled over.   The engine never overheated.

Now that I've talked to my Detroit Diesel mentor back home and read all the feedback on this board, I called Storer Coachways and talked to the maintenance manager.  He recommended Mello Truck Service.  They agreed that the head should have never been removed until other tests were done.  They advised that I shouldn't even let the original shop to re-assemble anything, so I got it towed over there today.  I don't want to bad mouth the original guy, he tried to help and did a lot of research for us.  He was just not a Detroit Diesel guy.

So the bus is now sitting at Mello Truck Service.  Neither shop liked the idea of us staying in the bus so we're sharing a hotel room with our Australian Shepherd. 

We'll have a better idea on Friday (tomorrow) but we're heading into a long weekend, so we might not get a resolution until Tuesday.

We considered many options, but I'm sure that most of you understand the economics.  I knew getting into this that the bus would be a money pit.  You guys gave me some faint hope that the engine may not be as damaged as we thought and the problem could be a number of other things.  I think it's well worth paying to have the engine re-assembled and properly diagnosed. 

If I wasn't so far away from home, I'd have more options.

Thanks again for the input.  We'll see how it goes.

Bryan
Vancouver BC
Logged

Bryan
Vancouver BC
GM PD-4108
B_K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 486




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 11:39:55 PM »

Good luck and keep "The Don" in mind! He's not that far South of you and he's pretty smart when it comes to Detroits and has a lot of parts!
Grin  BK  Grin
Logged
Dave5Cs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1721


1979 MCI MC5Cs 6V-71 644MT Allison, Roseville, CA




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 06:37:34 AM »

Valley power systems up in west Sacramento had I don t know if it is still there but an 8v-71n a GM bus they had just rebuilt. It was 1year or so ago. It was in a conversion that someone didn't t pay for and they were trying to get 5k for the bus just to recover their money on the rebuilt motor cost. I have an MCI and could not use it with the T drive. Might give them a call see if it is still there.

Dave5Cs from Galaxy S III
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 11:16:32 PM by Dave5Cs » Logged

My personal skills are fine.. it’s my tolerance to idiots that needs work!....

http://s1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj493/fltmr2000/
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13126




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 08:17:00 AM »

LOL the GM's that come to my place for work never need a pressure test you can tell in a heart beat where the water is coming from  Roll Eyes
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
loveshack
62 pd 4106
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


1962 pd4106




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2014, 09:11:31 AM »

I remember your 4 part series in mag .i feel for you guys last June we seized our rear end in our 4106 on our anniversary! I hated seeing the bus being towed .. But we love the ole dog and she's part of the family ! So with some frantic searching we found a rear end and installed it .. Should we have bought a new one idk . But it saved us over half of rebuilding what we had ,and the same time frame.. We drove it all summer And fall I'm hoping We made the right decision . But I love the ole bus! Oh did I mention the fire omg  it got so hot ,all I could picture while putting it out was the bus burning to the ground lol so it does get better.i pray your back on the highways real soon !  PS..Oh and always carry big extinguisher ! Andremember why you love your bus.....
Logged

Bruce E.                                                                        62 pd4106 vs730.                   
Gonic N.H.
qayqayt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 111





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 10:28:30 PM »

What’s an adventure without ups and downs, tears and laughter?  We’re still in Modesto CA after two weeks.  On the plus side, Vancouver has had snow and unseasonably cold temperatures.  We’re staying at a nice hotel, with a big screen TV to watch the Olympics.  We found a couple of outstanding dog parks so our pooch is having a great time and the weather has been great.  The Almond Festival is going on this weekend.  Plus I’m heading down to Fremont to have a look at the Pacific Bus Museum collection tomorrow thanks to their fantastic hospitality.

The waiting and uncertainty has been painful.  I wish we had time to spend in this area without the stress of wondering what would happen with the bus.  I want to thank RJ Long for his assistance on our first day.  His suggestion to call Storer Coachways to find a good Detroit Diesel shop turned out to be really solid advice. 

It’s taken a lot of time but the bad news continues to be bad news.  The bus needs an in-frame rebuild.  No getting around it even though we’ve looked at every possible alternative.  I want to thank everyone who had input on this post.  You helped us make the decisions we had to make.  You have no idea how close we came to scrapping the coach and walking away from it.

We’re heading home early next week to set up financial arrangements, but the plan is to be back here to pick the bus up and continue our vacation.  We’re going to continue on to Southern California for a few weeks then off to Yuma, Phoenix and then Las Vegas for early April.  Hope to hook up with a few BusNuts along the way.

Bryan and Rhonda
Vancouver BC
Logged

Bryan
Vancouver BC
GM PD-4108
luvrbus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13126




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2014, 04:57:23 AM »

Sad but it happens with the old buses I am not much on the in-frame just so many times one can do that to those old engines get everything in writing the bill has the nature to keep creeping up and up JMO

good luck 
Logged

Life is short drink the good wine first
Gary W
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2014, 07:53:17 AM »

Sorry to hear about your problems with the coach, always a worry with these machines. Glad to hear you are going ahead with the repairs. Hope to see you  and Rhonda down the road.

Gary
Logged
fraser8
Fraser
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 287


1972 Prevost


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2014, 02:22:33 PM »

Bryan, this is what you are missing. Here is a picture of two coaches outside, the 65 is warm inside the barn. We didn't have any snow until it started at 3am this morning, now we have a good foot or so. Should be gone tomorrow. Enjoy the sunshine...
Logged

Fraser Field
Deroche, BC, Canada
Where the milk cows out number the people, but they can't vote
1972 Prevost, Detroit 8-71/740 Allison automatic, Jakes
Hobbies: restoring classic cars, www.oldambulance.com, arranging old car tours: www.coasters2010.com, www.canadiancoasters.ca
Retired Paramedic
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6973





Ignore
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2014, 06:25:54 AM »

Good old AMGeneral 10240B of about 1979 vintage. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
hargreaves
1987 MCI 102A3
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 299





Ignore
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2014, 07:42:06 AM »

Tom its actually a New Flyer out of Winnipeg, mid 80,s  Cheers Gerry.
Logged

now as of Feb 2012 series 50 B400  . Sunshine Coast British Columbia
pcarexpress
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2014, 12:54:57 AM »

Bryan: when you come back to Modesto to pick up your bus, I live an hr away. Call me if you need any help. I'm willing to pick you up at an airport and take you to your bus. My name is Paul (209)535-7500. Very new to the bus scene, but I am willing to help you out any way I can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6973





Ignore
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2014, 08:16:39 AM »

New Flyer used the AMGeneral design-they were in together during the 70's and New Flyer used the design into the 80's. The bus was continued with the GMC classic and then the MCI classic up until 1992. I almost bought a Santa Monica Bus transit that is a MCI Classic that used the Series 50 with B400 transmission in T drive. The AMGeneral version used V drive, and the Canadian Flyer D800 and D900 used inline T drive. So it would have been easy to convert with just switching the engine cradle and changing the pumpkin on the rear axle. But decided to do the truck conversion project instead. Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!