Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
July 23, 2014, 09:29:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: 500 Members as of May 5th, 2006.  Smiley  3,499 Members as of October 21, 2012 Cheesy

   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Motor problem- Totally bummed.  (Read 5064 times)
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« on: December 09, 2006, 05:38:23 AM »

Hey Guys,
  I am having a state blacksmith meeting/demo at my studio this morning so I have to move my bus. I plugged in my new block heater last night and this morning I went out to start it and vroooom she hit right away!!! No ether!!! 

   BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there was an intermittant LOUD sucking noise coming out of the motor- sounded something like high pressure air- and it wouldn't shut off. I flipped the blower flapper and the rpm's went down but put out some seriously black smoke- and KEPT RUNNING!!!!!! I was freaked. I couldn't get it to quit! Luckily after about 10 mins of trying, a fellow blacksmith showed up and helped me. He knew of another shut off that I was not familiar with. (you know, I'm still a rookie and not happy with myself for taking on something like this without knowing more about diesels.)

  So anyway, I just thought I would throw this out to you to see what you think that noise is. The blacksmith that helped me said he wasn't familiar with them all that much but thought the blower gasket may be out of it. It was fine the last time I ran it, and the only other thing I did was put in a block heater.

  Let me know what you think. I'm NOT a "happy camper" right now. I may go back to being a wannabe. I think I'm over my head.

  Thanx guys.
     Chaz 
                 (back to the meeting)
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2006, 05:57:17 AM »

Chaz,

If you have used the emergency shut down as a method of killing the engine instead of the normal shutdown procedure, there is a VERY good possibility that you've taken out the blower seals.

The reason it's called the "emergency shut down" is because that is EXACTLY what it's for, in case of a runaway condition. Not for use as a starting and stopping device.

I think that if you hear air blowing by the gasket, under pressure, between the engine block and the blower, you should be able to replace that for about $10 and an hour of work.

If it's the seals on the impeller shafts, (which is what it sounds like), you will need to remove the blower and take it to your local 2 stroke guy and have new seals put in. At the same time, have it checked out for wear and clearance.

If it kept running after the flapper was used, it probably had oil passing through, along with fuel, since the fuel rail was still in an open position.

Good luck, and let us know what you find.

IHTH

Dallas

Logged
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2006, 06:42:23 AM »

Thanx Dallas.
 I have never used the e-shutdown to stop the engine before. I was just trying to shut it down using the flapper when it wouldn't stop this time. Didn't work. There was another lever by the throttle lever that did it. 
 The noise (hissing or sucking, or hell, even sounded kinda like an electrical arc) occured immediately when it started.
 Another guy here at the meeting said it could be iced fuel in an injecter. But was just a guess. I'm going to let it heat up till mid-day -supposed to get to be in the 40's- and try starting it again. He said if it was iced, it would be ok when it gets warm an then "dope the fuel". Any suggestions on brands of additives that are -in your opinion- are the best?? I know there are allot out there, but i would rather go by someones personal recommendation.

Back later...........
  Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
sommersed
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 48




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2006, 07:35:07 AM »

A couple of months ago, while in the middle of the Mojave Preserve in Calif I blew the air hose leading directly into the dash air pressure gauge.  That little hole, from where I was sitting sounded like a Jet plane to me.  Finally got to it from the front of my MC5A.

Ed
Logged
roadrunnertex
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 538





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2006, 07:57:55 AM »

Just a thought on my part?
Did you unplug the block heater before you cranked the engine?
I have always heard that you should unplug the block heater before you attempt to crank the engine.
As for the noise you heard I have not a clue so I am not even going to guess so I won't send you on a wild chase with you engine problem?
Keep us posted.
jlv Huh
Logged
gumpy
Some Assembly Required
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3169


Slightly modified 1982 MC9


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2006, 08:05:03 AM »

So, what's the temperature there this morning? 

It sounds like you dind't have any air in the system, which is why the engine wouldn't shut down. (I'm assuming GMCs use an air cyclinder to shut down the engine, like MCIs do, so if not, correct me and I'll retract this.)

It's then possible that the noise you hear is the air compressor, and possibly the intake tube is detached from the air cleaner (you described it as a sucking sound)?

You should learn how you engine shuts fuel off normally, and how to operate it manually (which is probably what your buddy did).

Also sounds like your flapper is not fully activating and is allowing some air past. Even if you're sucking oil from blower seals, you still need air for it to burn.

Just my thoughts.
Logged

Craig Shepard
Located in Minnesquito

http://bus.gumpydog.com - "Some Assembly Required"
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4857


Nick & Michelle Badame


WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2006, 08:12:40 AM »

Chaz,

I'll bet when you go to refire it, it may not start... Like Craig and Dallas said, Maybe the emergency shutdown didn't close.

And now when you restart it you'll find that you need to reset the locking device on the blower.

The sucking sound sounds like the massive air trying to suck past the shutdown.

Good Luck
Nick-
Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Buffalo SpaceShip
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 591





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2006, 08:46:34 AM »

I vote for Craig's diagnosis.

Chaz, when you get a chance, take the big round boot off of the top of the blower and look down into it. You should be able to operate the flapper and check your blower screen for obstructions.

What your buddy did was turn off the fuel rack. It's the ONLY way to turn off the engine in a non-emergency situation. Since we have the same coach, I'm sending a pic of the lever you push DOWN to stop the fuel. Like Craig says, if you have no air, the stop cylinder (the round thing that pushes on the fuel rack lever) can't activiate and it won't shut down. Your compressor is likely leaking air downstream. Make sure that its discharge muffler valve (the one your SUPPOSED to drain every day) isn't in the open position. Could be all it was... If you can't find the lever, I can go out and snap another pic for you.

But now you probably also have blower seal(s) issues. It's not the end of the world and don't panic. It's best to fix these things when you're NOT on the road someplace, so it was a good place to be stranded, eh? You've got friends here that can help you out. Take a deep breath... and relax.

Brian B.
Logged

Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6667





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2006, 10:11:31 AM »

Chaz- While your bus and your Detroit engine seem complicated, actually they aren't.  The first indication was that you didn't know how to shut down the engine without using the emergency shut down.  Hopefully now you know of the governor shut off lever that you can just push with your finger to stop-especially helpful if the air/electrically operated dash switch fails to kill the engine.  Also, the dash controlled engine kill may take over 50psi in the air system to activate.  Please get educated about your bus, with books, someone teaching you at the bus, or such.  I work at a Freightliner dealer and periodically have to go out to the service dept (I work up front in new truck sales) with a sticks and staples motorhome to help a mechanic try to figure out some of the electrical system that the owner knows nothing about.  Even if you don't want to work on the bus, being educated about its' operation will keep you from getting gouged from some shade tree mechanic.  I'm not trying to belittle or critisize you, all bus conversion owners should take the time to get to know their bus so at least they can recognize what the problem is so not to drive it when a safety issue may be at stake.

Now to me it sounds like you blew the high air pressure line to the air solenoid that operates the shut down on the governor.  Now that you know how to shut it down by pushing on the governor lever, you can try starting it again.  Although, there might have been a chance that you blew the blower seals, if you had the older designe seals.  If your blower has been rebuilt in the last 10 years, then the only seals they now use are the turbo seals, which won't be sucked out with the emergency shut down flapper valve.  Start the engine from the back, and if you see alot of abnormal blue smoke, quickly shut it down before it starts taking off on its' own-this usually means you've blown the blower seals.  If the engine sounds the same without the blue smoke, you're probably OK.  After you look and listen more, let us know in better detail where that air is coming from and I bet it'll be something you'll be able to fix!  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2006, 01:18:35 PM »

Ok guys, I'm back. It was a good thing I had the blacksmith meeting here today. One of them was a mechanic. He helped me out. (Damn good guy!)

 It wasn't the end of the world......... as I suspected.  Roll Eyes It was a pressure relief valve. It seems as tho there is an ice blockage in an airline. Actually, we think it may be in that first thing the air runs into (rookie, I know) or somewhere inline close to the compressor. He said to break the line one connection away from the compressor (about 2' of hose away) and put several ounces of airline anti-freeze in it and then fire it again. It may have what it takes to warm it up  and break the ice blockage. I think I will do this tomorrow as it's suppossed to be up closer to 50 degrees. 

 I know I need to learn more about it Tom, but I'm sorry, books don't make it. That is the biggest reason I want to make one or two or a hundred of these rally's to hang out with you guys and learn. Maybe I am putting the cart in front of the horse, but............. I have even tried to find someone to help educate me a little on the engine, but no luck. I am having my rack run in a week or so maybe that guy will be kind enough to school me in what I need to know to get by. I didn't even know it took air to shut down the motor. I'm SERIOUSLY thinking about changing that if it can be done and a good idea.
 
  By the way, we refired the motor and everything seems fine. Good old white smoke!

  Thanx for the pic Brian!!!!!!! That is what I have. I now know what that thing is for. Huh Sad Smiley I don't know if I have blower seals isssue or not. What does it do if I do??   (btw, breathing is good, but with this meeting and my bus sitting in front of my studio taking up ALLOT of room, and all the stresses of putting this thing on, I was really down. Sorry.)

  Well, I have to clean up now. I furnish the chili (20# of hamburger) and allot of other stuff, so i got some straightening up to do. Sorry to bother you guys (I HATE to do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
PLEEEEEESE let me know if there is ANYTHING else I need to do to winterize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why I was asking in that earlier thread. I got the radiator and house water taken care of , but what else is there???

  Thanx agin folks. Sorry to be a pest.
       Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Buffalo SpaceShip
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 591





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2006, 01:42:34 PM »

Chaz, if you have ice, then you must not have the alcohol bottle filled up... or it's not working. Make sure you drain the discharge muffler every time you shut off the engine. It's on the right side of the engine, coming out of the compressor into this corrugated pipe. There's a valve on there that you open up so water and oil can escape. In fact, there's no harm in leaving the valve open to dry out the entire line this winter. Just be sure and close it once you're ready to fire it up again.

I can appreciate you not being a "book learner", but having to rely upon others, and scrouging to find an "expert" on a 30 year-old coach seems like you'll be destined to have more issues like you did today... and feel frustrated and powerless when something goes wrong. These old busses are not complicated, and can be quite reliable, given the proper amount of ongoing preventative maintenence. Avail yourself of every opportunity to learn, and you'll be able to help yourself out next time.

Drawing the line in the sand and saying "books don't cut it," is IMHO setting yourself up to have more problems down the road. Sometimes Da Book is all you got... like maybe when you're on the side of the road and the nearest friendly busnut is an on an unavailable Internet connection, 800 miles away. Immerse yourself in Da Book, read it on the pooper, whatever... and then go out and get yourself totally greasy and grimy on, around and underneath the thing. You and your bus will be better for it.

Just some advice,
Brian B.
Logged

Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
JimC
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 201




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2006, 02:09:14 PM »

Chaz,
Now that you know that it takes air in your system to shut down the coach, give serious consideration to airing up your bus with a shop compressor prior to starting it.

I wanted to shut mine down once prior to the air building up and couldn't do it. The next day I went out and bought a small 120V air compressor to stay on the bus. I plumbed it into the air lines and ALWAYS bring up the air pressure prior to starting the bus.

The compressor also helps when you are in a campground (or the smoke and noise is headed right toward your cranky neighbors house) and you don't want to spend the 10-15 minutes building air so you can fill your air bags prior to driving away.

On your winterizing, did you take the brass cap off of the valve on your toilet when you drained the water? if not, do so ( if its not too late ) or you will be replacing that valve in the spring, and don't ask me how I know that!

JimCallaghan 4106
Wisconsin
Logged

4106 - 8-71/730
Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
between Milwaukee & Madison
captain ron
Guest

« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2006, 02:30:23 PM »

Chaz, the sound you heard could also be the compressor. I had a funny noise like that on my old 4905 when in extreme cold. Ice would block a valve in the engine compartment and make a hell of a racket. after warming up it would quit. also your alternator will make a racket whining sound when extremely cold
Logged
boogiethecat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 633



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2006, 07:01:51 PM »

I wonder if discharging a CO2 fire extinguisher in a controlled fashion into the intake would shut down a diesel... seems to me it'd be a neat trick although I havn't tried it....
maybe a second good reason to have one of those around....
Logged

1962 Crown
San Diego, Ca
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6667





Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2006, 07:08:17 PM »

Chaz- glad to here you've figured it out.  And I also agree that looking and asking questions is the best way.  It's mostly the way I learned.  Amazing what can be learned just by observing.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Dreamscape
Guest

« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2006, 07:21:13 PM »

Chaz,

I have asked lots of questions regarding my problems. That is what this board is for. Do not ever feel like you are asking too many.
That is how you learn.

Get any books you can regarding your coach, engine, transmission and electrical. Also try to find a copy of maintenance manuals regarding your wonderful coach.

Keep at it, and it will come together.

Happy Trails,

Paul

Dreamscape
Logged
Hi yo silver
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 818




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2006, 07:38:21 PM »

Boogie,
I'm thinking the idea of discharging the CO2 extinguisher into the intake would be a bad idea.  When you discharge the CO2 that has been under pressure, it becomes super cold. (Ever heard of chilling beer with one?)  That sudden blast of freezing air, along with the condensation couldn't be good.  But, yeah, I guess it would stop your engine...just a thought.  Of course it might create a more serious problem.   
Logged

Blue Ridge Mountains of VA   Hi Yo Silver! MC9
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2006, 07:56:55 PM »

Thanx guys. I appreciate the help. The sound was definitely air coming out of a pressure relief valve. I could feel the air and make it quit by holding the little button down, but just briefly.
  I got the airline antifreeze to put in tomorrow. Hopefully that will do the trick.

  Having to carry another air compressor doesn't sound like fun. I know it doesn't take up much space, etc., but......... ya know? I was kinda hoping the a.c. on the motor would actually double as emergency air for other things. Oh well, I'll look into it.
Quote
On your winterizing, did you take the brass cap off of the valve on your toilet when you drained the water? if not, do so ( if its not too late ) or you will be replacing that valve in the spring, and don't ask me how I know that!
Hmmmmmmmmm..... what cap?? I'll have to look at it tomorrow.

  Another blacksmith mentioned the fire extinguisher. Glad I didn't have to. But he said it works. But he didn't know if it would hurt anything. I guess it would be the VERY last resort.

  I have the maintenance manual with the bus, but there is no substitute for learning from someone who knows, ya know? I mean, what would that book have told me on my situation?? It's great as a reference and showing you what to look for, but I needed someone who knew something about that motor to help me shut it off and then to help me figure out what was wrong. I had never heard that noise before. I just think it would be nice to hang with people like yourselves and learn from personal experience. Oh well, this board is "the next best thing to being there"!!  Wink

  Have a good evening. Thanx again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4446


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2006, 05:15:31 AM »

Chaz,
  You should try to join us at Bussin' 2007. There will be more hands on bus conversion knowledge than you could absorb in one weekend.
Cost to get to Bussin' 2007: ? ? ? ?
Knowledge Gained:   PRICELESS!!
And you do not have to stay at a Holiday Inn!   Jack
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 06:56:06 AM by JackConrad » Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
Bosshosssport96
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 102




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2006, 08:29:20 AM »

Hmmmmmmm...how does one know that the blower seals are damaged, besides the blue smoke,how does one check them,and how much of a challenge is it(money and time) to take the blower off and repair this situation....Frank.
Logged
Runcutter
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 508



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2006, 09:02:27 AM »

Chaz, your experience brings up a great point.  What basic items should we all know how to do?  I"m not talking about how to rebuild a differential, but a basic mechanical checklist.  Where/when should we disconnect batteries (I always pull my battery switch when storing the coach).  Your experience, how do we shut the engine down, safely, from abnormal situations?  What preventative maintenance steps, at what frequencies, are called for?  An experience posted elsewhere in the help list topic discusses an owner who apparently wasn't aware of basic maintenance issues.  Maybe even something like pilots' emergency procedures checklists?

I've been around buses for almost 4 decades, but haven't spent much (if any) time in the engine compartment in about 30 years.  In August, we picked up our 4107.  Subsequently, with business travel and getting sick, I haven't had much time to work on it - only had the engine hatch open 3-4 times.  When I saw Brian't photo in this topic, I realized that I'd forgotten what all the levers and solenoids were, except the emergency stop (butterfly).

So, despite long bus experience, I might have been in the same boat.  We don't know what we don't know, or in my case, I also don't know what I've forgotten.  (By the way, I'm not to the point where I can hide my own Easter eggs yet).  Not using the knowledge leads to losing the knowledge.  I used to speak French fairly fluently, but lack of use has rendered me unable to communicate at all in French.  (I tried at a railway museum in Quebec last year, and was thankful that the enginehouse crew spoke English).

Russ, Doug, JL, others - any thoughts?

Arthur Gaudet   Carrollton, TX (and, as usual, on my way to the airport again).
 
Logged

Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
1968 PD-4107

Working in the bus industry provides us a great opportunity - to be of service to others
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2006, 11:06:07 AM »

Arthur,
  EXCELLENT post!! You have described my situation perfectly!! I DO know my way around a wrench (quite well actually) but not what needs to be done to a bus. A post or sticky or something I as well as the rest of the bus nuts could print out would be SOOOOOOOOOOOO helpful!!! I realize that there are several different coaches out there, but allot of it would be the same. I'm thinking a helpful thread would be in order.

 As far as Arcadia goes........... I want to sooooooo bad!!! And I haven't counted it out. I just need to get the water tanks figured out and done and the wvo system in. The bad thing has been I am teaching the 8th grade right now-12 years now teaching sculpture and stained glass, 1 month a year- and doing the blacksmith meeting has taken up all my time. But I am still hoping and pushing for it. I can start concentrating on it now. But your right Jack, it would be EXCELLENT to make it and take in ALL that I can digest.

  I have had a couple guys call me and give me a hand on things- Jerry Lieber, Bill Glenn SUPER guys!!!!-  and I will be bugging them soon for more info. But hanging with some of you all would be the best.

  By the way, I just anti-freezed the air system and all seems to be well. (fingers crossed) I'm going to take her for a drive now. Thanx fellas!!!!!

   In TOTAL appreciation,
       Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
brojcol
Jimmy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 459




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2006, 11:58:32 AM »

Chaz'

There will be times when you feel overwhelmed by your bus.  But, the more you get to know her, the more comfortable you'll be around her (sounds like a relationship).  In fact, you do have a relationship with your bus.  You will find out that every bus has a "personality".  I had a problem with my clutch slipping once.  I thought, "OH MY GOD!!!"  my engine is about to blow up.  I took it to a mechanic and 15 minutes later, I was rolling a, gain.  Costed me nada. 

So, don't always assume the worst.  You have a great coach with lots of good information out there on it.  Just be glad you DON'T have a sticks and staples.

You are not over your head.  Someone asked me once, "Why did you buy that bus that you know nothing about..."  My response, "Because I wanted it!"

So, enjoy the ride and get to know your baby.  And don't be too hard on yourself.  A couple of years from now, you'll be giving some newbie advice...

Jimmy
Logged

"Ask yourself this question...Are you funky enough to be a globetrotter?  Well are you???  ARE YOU?!?!

deal with it."            Professor Bubblegum Tate
roadrunnertex
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 538





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2006, 12:09:07 PM »

Chad,
Blower Seals ?
This is what I think about the blower seals on your 8V/71.
Your engine was at idle and not at a high engine RPM so I doubt that using the emergency shut off did any dammage.
You can use a CO/2 fire extingusher to stop a Detroit squrit the CO/2 into the air intake system on the engine.
NOTE! Don't ever use a dry powder fire extingusher.
I have seen the emergency stop trip on a PD4104 6/71 engine because the latch on the lock that holds the valve open was worn.
This was going down the interstate at 70 mph.
The emergency stop was reset and was held open so it would not trip closed with a coat hanger wire.
The engine was restarted and it was fine no problem with blower seal being abused.
Keep playing with the old GMC and the more you learn the better you will feel about the old Buffalo.
Our old GMC's are like 57 Chevrolets with a 6 cylinder engine it will always get you home and repairs are done with bailing wire & string so to speak.
jlv
 Grin
Logged
Dreamscape
Guest

« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2006, 12:54:02 PM »

I agree with JLV.

I had pressure washed my 8v71 once upon a time.

I drove her down I-5 all of sudden I lost power and black smoke came out of the exhaust. I thought, what now. I thought I blew her up.

I, at the time, new nothing regarding the emergency shut down. I pulled up the floor panel and looked around. The shutter had closed on the blower. It came off the spring latch. I put some wire around it to hold it open. I fired the ole gal up and wahla, no black smoke and purred like a kitten. I didn't even know what I was doing. Got back home and read DAH book. WHEW! A CHP was on the phone to get me a wrecker, all I could think of was $600 to tow me about 2 miles.


I learned a lot that day.  Shocked Shocked Shocked

Paul

Dreamscape
Logged
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2006, 01:57:42 PM »

Chaz,

I did some work for a fellow a while back on his conversion.
The more I talked with him, the less confident I was that he knew anything at all mechanical about his engine, transmission, electrical system, or even tires.
I offered to take time with him to teach him rudimentary things, such as how to change fuel filters, jump starting, simple stuff EVERY diesel owner should know.
I was rebuffed quite rudely and told that if he broke down, he would simply call road service because he was 74 years old and had enough money to pay for anything he needed. Then he broke down on the way home, (blew an airbag) and blamed me for not checking it. But he did call a dozen times asking what he could do, and how to do it.

I then worked on another of his rigs, and did exactly as he asked. The funny thing was, he put a stop payment on his check after leaving my place, even though he was pleased with my work.

I personally believe that if you are going to own one of these beasties, you need to have a certain amount of mechanical knowledge based on actual hands on experience.
Having the books is wonderful, but won't do a person a bit of good if they don't know a box end wrench from a ballpeen hammer.

I think I would take some of your native ability to fix things and temper that with some good "Book Learnin'" plus add in some visits to every bus nut, rally and even bus repair shops and sales lots to pick up tips and pointers from every source possible.
(Even a lot of Bus drivers are more than willing to show off their buses).

You are on the right track, asking here and on other boards all the questions you can think of.
You are more than welcome to stop by my place here in SC anytime and we can play with your bus and/or mine so that you can take care of the little problems that arise everytime you push that start button.
I'm totally certain I will learn something, I do everytime I pick up the engine room cover or work on an electrical system.

Great job, and good luck!

Dallas
Logged
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2006, 06:07:21 AM »

Quote
You have a great coach with lots of good information out there on it.  Just be glad you DON'T have a sticks and staples.

You are absolutely correct. I wouldn't have sticks and staples. I honestly can't understand why someone would. Personally, I have to have lasting things- tools, cars, motorcycle, clothes, appliances, house, working on a girlfriend Grin, etc)  I just got a little concerned when it sounded like a major issue. I can handle the small things right now, but a large expenditure would blow it. I would have to bail on it. I just don't have the coin right now. This is a project that I am wanting to do over some time to get it where I can do months at a time in it and yet be able to play with it in the process.

Quote
Our old GMC's are like 57 Chevrolets with a 6 cylinder engine it will always get you home and repairs are done with bailing wire & string so to speak.
jlv

HAAAAAAAA! Funny you say that. My "driver" car is a '56 Chevy that I have had for 27 years!!! You see, I DO like things that last. I'm totally not a disposable or fad kind of person!!  Cheesy

Quote
You are more than welcome to stop by my place here in SC anytime and we can play with your bus and/or mine so that you can take care of the little problems that arise everytime you push that start button.

Thanx Dallas. I don't get that way too often, but I'll look ya up when I do.

  Time to go teach the little darlins!! Take care!

       Chaz


Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Kwajdiver
MCI-9 "Kwaj Diver"
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1155





Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2006, 04:09:40 PM »

You guys crack me up   Huh   Grin   Like Chaz, I know I'm way over my head.  However, it's not as deep as it was two months ago.  I'm learning.
The first thing I did was run out of fuel.  Just south of Sarasota, Florida, about 100 yards from the pumps.  That cost me a four hour delay and 200 bucks for the call out.  However, while I was paying this guys to get me started, I picked his brain.

Ever weekend I venture into a new area of the bus.  Open things up, see what's in there.  Found my duel heater blowers this past weekend.   LOL      Grin

I'm making a list of things to look, ask and touch in Arcadia.  Sorry, I will be in a four wheeler and not the coach. The coach will have to stay in Mobile, I will be in Winter Haven for the holidays, just North of Arcadia.

So Chaz, with the help of these guys, hands on, and a little reading, it may ALL  work out.

Why did you buy that bus that you know nothing about..."  My response, "Because I wanted it!"    Believe me, I have been as this, just a few times by friends and family......

Thanks guys,

Bill Williamson   still smiling,  a full timer.

MCI-9  Big and Blue
Logged

Auburndale, Florida
MCI-9
V-6-92 Detroit, Allison 5 spd auto
Kwajalein Atoll, RMI
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2006, 04:58:43 PM »

Hello Chaz.

Back to your original problem....

If you have an air dryer, it may have frozen in the purge position, blocking the air from reaching the rest of the system.

Check to see that it has a wire attached to the bottom, and that there is power available when the coach is on.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2006, 05:56:35 PM »

Hmmmmmmmm, air dryer. Can ya hum me a few bars???  Cheesy
  I have no idea what that looks like, but I may add one if I don't have one already. I understand it's allot better than draining the tanks all the time. If I take a pic of what the first device is that the air goes into, will you be able to tell me what it is?? If not, I'll try to remember to ask the guy who is running my rack on monday. I'll probably bother the h*** outta him.
   
Quote
The first thing I did was run out of fuel.
Ditto!!!!!!!!!!! Sucked to have to have a tow bill first trip! But I am learning.
 
Quote
Why did you buy that bus that you know nothing about..."  My response, "Because I wanted it!" 
  And, "It was on sale"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  Anybody elas know about my speedo cable delimna??
   Thanx,
      Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3486





Ignore
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2006, 10:55:03 PM »

I know there was mention books before but I have made it a habit of sitting down and absorbing the manuals. In the 18 mo I have owned the bus I probably read my 4104 manuals three or four times because it was all so new to me. I probably read them two times before I even went after the bus.

This has saved my bacon more than once. The first time was when I had accidentally hit the engine shut off switch in the engine compartment. The engine would start and run fine until the air pressure built up enough to shut it off-bummer. I spent an hour or two scratching my head and finally remembered reading about that switch a few months before. Switch off-problem solved!

There is no way you can learn to maintain a bus by book only but it sure helps to figure out what might be wrong and the parts book drawings are really great when you're removing something or taking it apart.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Nusa
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 540




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2006, 12:12:33 AM »

Reading this I keep wondering why the flapper shutdown failed to kill the engine by starving it for air? You experts don't seem to be concerned about that aspect, but I have to wonder. Does it mean the flapper shutdown is leaky or defective in some manner? Obviously the engine was still getting enough air to run.
Logged
Sojourner
Guest

« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2006, 02:09:57 AM »

Flapper  valve is Not mean to kill the engine but only to keep from running high damaging RPM…..limited oxygen (restricted air flow) cause low power & RPM at any throttle position…..while the more throttle = more unburned fuel = wet fuel vapor or some black exhaust smoke at a given amount of restricted air intake.

If all intake air leaks is sealed off 100% than is will kill engine but flapper is NOT design to kill engine…only to limited RPM period!

So to truly shut down diesel at any given time is to shut off fuel injector’s injecting fuel so it will quit running. Another word…if fuel injector is “stuck open” to cause engine RPM to run wild then flapper valve is use to save unnecessary engine damage….if it still running (low safe RPM) then pinch flex hose from fuel pump outlet with large 6” “C” clamp only enough to stop fuel flow.

However in Chaz case….Before ever starting diesel engine & driving….need to learn to where to shut off engine manually in case of some unexpected reason to not able shut engine down in normal matter.

Shop manual is for owner who want to have full or some control of what to do in case something went wrong. And re-read few time to be very knowledgeable where, what, how, when about everything in engine compartment as well bus chassis.

Remember most young modern diesel mechanic have no idea where manual shut off is on 2-cycle diesel. So help is very limited on the road to your journey.

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
Logged
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2006, 06:43:50 AM »

I had the rack on my 6-71 stick open on my 4104 as I crested a mountain top in California. I did pull over in a truck turn out before I actually figured out what was happening. I then turned on the air damper and it did stop the engine, but it was only running on five cylinders due to a stuck injector. I do not know if that made a difference or not. I did not damage the turbo seals by this action.
Richard
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3486





Ignore
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2006, 09:19:58 PM »

DML,

For the benefit of the rest of us 4104 owners, did the rack or governor stick?

Tell me more about the turbo, I've been thinking about installing one.
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2006, 09:34:56 PM »

An injector stuck, holding the rack open to full throttle position. Quite scary really to top one of the California mountains and let up on the throttle and nothing happens. Once stopped and the engine shut off, I removed the valve cover and loosened the bolts holding the stuck injector. Have no idea now how I determined which one it was. That was probably 25 years ago. Screwed up the valve cover gasket and everything was covered in oil by the time I got home. A couple of hundred miles probably. She also smoked like a banshee the rest of the way home.

I really found out from RJ that I never had a turbo. Just the standard blower. All of this was way before the advent of the internet and the board and i was working without much prior experience or help. I spent quite a bit of time down at MAK's shop picking his brain and his mechanics brains. Thanks again MAK.
Richard
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2006, 08:24:06 AM »

I take my bus in monday night to have the rack run. I hope to be doing some "brain picking" myself!! At least with some hands on knowledge, I may be able to understand what the book says a little easier. Otherwise, I just read over it and it doesn't sink in.  Wink

  Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
gus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3486





Ignore
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2006, 08:50:44 PM »

Richard,

Thanks for the info, another bit to put away in the old thinker for future reference!
Logged

PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!