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Author Topic: 471 Detroit Diesel - good / bad / ugly  (Read 1621 times)
VillageBus
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« on: February 14, 2014, 06:21:34 PM »

I'm curious to see what folks have to say about the classic 471 Detroit Diesel engine ~ the good, the bad, and the ugly?  I realize it has 160 Horsepower (or so they say) but am not sure how much torque these engines typically produce.  I am interested in towing approx 5,000lbs in a covered trailer. Seem like a reasonable venture?  Thanks in advance for the input and advice, it is greatly appreciated!
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DMoedave
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 06:35:49 PM »

what are you running it in and whats the trans and rear ratio? We had one and it was all it could be! Grin Ours was a 4 speed and 4.10 rear and she pulled pretty good, just took a while to get there, speed wise and destination. The previous owner had her everywhere even out west towing his smaller van and they did very well. Ours had the 4 valve head. The other good was it was easy to work on, at least in our rig. plenty of room. a better trans would have been nice. It never let us down in over 12 years of back and forth to Fla from NY and been to maine and Memphis. Our biggest complaint was the top speed was lacking. Good engine tho.
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we love our buses!!! NE Pa or LI NY, or somewhere in between!
luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 06:38:14 PM »

The 4-71 with N-65 injectors are 155 hp,413 ft lbs of torque the turbo model is 211 hp and 533 ft lbs of torque pretty good little engines fwiw they don't last long set at 330 hp on dry land BTDT
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:02:56 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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wg4t50
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 12:18:10 AM »

I have no sperience with the 4-71 in a vehicle, but in sationary use as generator or fire pump, they are great engines.  Me, I prefer the 12V-71 in the MC7 for highway use, no hills anywhere.  Gearing is big consideration for better mpg. 3.7 with overdrive as in the RTO910 or RTO9513 is good. Have to chase sight seeing and photo bugs off after while.
Dave M
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MCI7 20+ Yrs
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lostagain
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 06:37:43 AM »

I had one in the Courier 96. Quite slow both in power and top speed. But once I turboed it, it rocked! 4 valve head with N75s, 2 piece pistons, etc. I can't remember the gear ratio, but I turned the max no load speed to 2500 rpm, which got me 65 mph. Kept up to traffic quite well. Passed loaded trucks up the hills. The bus was 23000 lbs, plus a little enclosed trailer with bikes.

JC
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JC
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TomC
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 06:40:21 AM »

4-71 is a 6-71 minus 2 cylinders. Just as tough, just as reliable. I don't believe Detroit made a TA version-they did turbo it. But to get the max power you could rebuild it to a turbocharged engine with air to air intercooling. With 80 injectors (the biggest Detroit made truck engines with-although larger injectors are available), you'll have 200hp and 600lb/ft torque-plenty of power for a 35ft'r. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 10:03:26 PM »

Almost bought it.  35 feet long.  Empty weight of about 19,700 lbs. The CA rated 671N was rated at about 195 hp @ 2100 and about 575 torque @ around 1400 rpm.  This is an estimate.  The tranny was the old Fuller T905M 5 speed.  Cruising speed @ 55 mph was around 1750 rpm.  The straight 5 speed seemed well matched to the engine.

If memory serves, the power and response was more than adequate.  My point is that you can turbo inter cool the tried and true 471 like already said.  The sound of the exhaust was very very cool.  The old Crown even had a functioning Jake Brake.   The owner claimed he got over 10 mph--with his foot in it.    HB of CJ (old coot)  Hope this helps kinda.
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Iceni John
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 10:44:22 PM »

The owner claimed he got over 10 mph--with his foot in it.    HB of CJ (old coot)  Hope this helps kinda.
G, not H (I hope!)
FYI, my friend's 40' tandem Crown with a 270 HP 6-71T and 10-speed got 10 MPG doing a steady 55 MPH coming back along CA 99.   And that's 15 MPH slower than it could have been . . .

John
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1990 Crown 2R-40N-552:  6V92TAC, DDEC II, HT740, Jake.      Hecho en Chino.     
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CrabbyMilton
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 05:00:19 AM »

It's a bit ironic and funny that the engine in the SETRA S417 and S407 is the OM 471. They could have called it whatever they wanted but perhaps, just perhaps the DAIMLER folks want to keep the model number alive. An old 4-71 in a coach that size....? Smiley
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TomC
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 08:57:05 AM »

The new OM471 is basically the Detroit DD13-up to 470hp and 1650lb/ft torque here in the U.S. In Europe, the OM471 goes up to 530hp and 1850lb/ft torque-you can see how much more conservative our ratings are compared to Europe-mainly because of our much longer distances we have to go. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
gus
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 04:30:04 PM »

The 471 was used in the military Gamma Goat a few years ago and was right beside the driver and passenger. It resulted in a few lost hearing cases, probably one of the loudest engines built.

It was also used in a Ford pickup, I think in the '60s, but I know nothing about how it worked out.
I don't think many of them were built. I find it funny that Ford used a GM engine!!
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PD4107-152
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TomC
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 10:49:18 PM »

Sorry to burst your bubble, Gus, but the Gamma Goat used a 3-53 that is a very loud engine. And the 4-71 is too tall to fit under a pickup hood.  Once again, probably the 4-53 was used-as it was used in many pickup Diesel conversions.

I've seen 2-53, 3-53, 4-53, even the 6V-53 in a pickup conversion. Did see a 6-71, but was a design rebuild of the truck to shoe horn it in. Considering that even the 6V-53T was rated at 300hp and 600lb/ft torque with it's massive noise level, the new 6.7 liter V-8 Diesel from Ford (and others too) being almost as quiet as a gas engine with it putting out 400hp and 800lb/ft torque can hardly be beat. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
wg4t50
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 11:37:25 PM »

Oh Yea,
Did the 4-53T into a Ford F250 4X4, was interesting, sounded like a swarm of bees in a Spam can (loud). More of a courosity than a great idea.
Now much prefer the 6.7 Ford Diesel, Big power, reasonable MPG and very quiet, have had many Navistars, but since the Ford 6.7, can not think of another Navistar. 7.3, 7.3 Power Strokes (6), now have two 6.7 Fords. Use them with service bodies on F350 SRW.  They do great.
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MCI7 20+ Yrs
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Central Virginia
CrabbyMilton
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 03:46:32 AM »

Some years ago, I saw a FORD F series pickup go past the house and it had the familiar DETROIT 3 or 4 cylinder sound. I had to think for a minute to make sure that's what I heard. Smiley I also remember there was a sewer and street cleaner builder here in Milwaukee not too far from my house(CENTRAL ENGINEERING). The sales people would take the new customer around to make sure they knew how to use it before taking final delivery. One of the engine(for the sweeper/vacuum) options was a 3 or 4 cylinder 53 or 71 series. You could hear those things over a block away and was sometimes louder than the siren like vacuum sound. Neater sound than the overly muffled sound of the standard FORD V8. How times have changed since the 1970's and 80's for me that I treasure a V8 sound in a car or light truck being that this engine in gasoline form seems to be going the way of the square wheel and 8 track at least in FORD products.
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gus
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 05:07:30 PM »

Tom,

You're right, I blew that one!! Completely forgot about the 53 series.
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PD4107-152
PD4104-1274
Ash Flat, AR
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