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Author Topic: Jake Brake Opinion Wanted  (Read 2209 times)
TomC
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« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2014, 10:33:12 PM »

Really doesn't matter what rear end ratio your bus has-that's what the transmission is for to gear down to whatever speed you feel comfortable. On my V730, if you pull it down to 1st, you can get torque converter lockup. This was very helpful when I crossed from 395 over 89 then over 4 to Angels Camp (don't recommend it in a bus-in a car would be great). Was in 1st gear the whole time.

World transmissions can be programmed in almost limitless ways. Jake can work in any gear. You can also get automatic gear down shift when the Jake is activated-all the way down to 2nd if you like. The World transmission will also lockup in 1st gear if you push the button down to 1st for slow going in the mountains. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
luvrbus
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« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2014, 05:06:19 AM »

Very true about the WT I have a 60 series you can throw a basket through the side caused by Jakes and some off wall programing on a B500
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digesterman
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« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2014, 07:14:26 AM »

They work good Dave just install a transmission temp gauge and keep the temp under 300+ degrees you will like it they are reliable

How difficult/expensive is adding a retarder to a Allison 6 speed / series 60? In general, don't need exact costs.
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Lee
Le Mirage XL 45E
Detroit Series 60
470HP
97,250 original miles (10-2014)
TomC
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« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2014, 11:43:14 AM »

Does your Series 60 have a flat valve cover or a high domed valve cover. Many of the early buses that used Series 60's didn't have room for the Jakes, so they were ordered without and there is no room to install them. Then some of the buses did start to install Jakes on the front 4 cylinders only and still have no room for the rear 2 cylinder Jakes.

If you install Jakes on a Series 60 with an Allison World, there is either a programming you have to turn on, or the transmission will get the signal from the engine the retarder is activated. Have to hook up the reader to find out. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
luvrbus
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« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2014, 12:34:12 PM »

Adding a retarder to the World B500 or the 4000 series is not that big of a deal the retarder and cooler just replaces the rear cover. The retarder on a World does not change the length of the transmission like it did on the 700 series the WT will require a special yoke for the retarder. The World uses what is called a module and I have no idea what the module would cost you the programing is cheap. The module for the World just adds 40 lbs in weight were as on the 700 series it was close to 200 lbs and 8 inches in length ?

good luck     
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digesterman
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« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2014, 05:16:16 PM »

Adding a retarder to the World B500 or the 4000 series is not that big of a deal the retarder and cooler just replaces the rear cover. The retarder on a World does not change the length of the transmission like it did on the 700 series the WT will require a special yoke for the retarder. The World uses what is called a module and I have no idea what the module would cost you the programing is cheap. The module for the World just adds 40 lbs in weight were as on the 700 series it was close to 200 lbs and 8 inches in length ?

good luck     
Interesting, any idea what the cost might be on a 4000? I do have Jakes, probably overkill but what the heck.
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Lee
Le Mirage XL 45E
Detroit Series 60
470HP
97,250 original miles (10-2014)
TomC
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« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2014, 06:16:33 AM »

I know with Freightliner, if you have a transmission retarder, the Jake Brake is deactivated-in another words, you shouldn't have both. I know some ran with Cat brake savers and jakes-but that was back in the day when Cat Jakes were not very effective. Now, Series 60's are very effective and with single drive, probably would get wheel skidding using both at the same time. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
digesterman
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« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2014, 07:17:44 AM »

Thanks to both of you Clifford and TomC, appreciate the info.
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Lee
Le Mirage XL 45E
Detroit Series 60
470HP
97,250 original miles (10-2014)
Seangie
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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2014, 07:47:43 AM »

Steve - Our bus came with Jake's installed.  Before our bus I have had zero experience with driving any heavy equipment.

Our bus has a 6v-92T with a 740 auto trans.

When at the high end of 4th gear...65-70 the Jake's don't make much difference.  They help but not a whole lot.  If I get down to the lower end of 4th gear 55-60 the Jake's can hold that speed on a 5% grade.  If its a little steeper then you have to occasionally apply brakes to keep the speed.

I love them.  They add additional braking power and there have been many hills that would have toasted my brakes (mostly because of my lack of experience)  if I had not had the Jake's.  They also cool the engine.  On hot days at the top of a long climb I've seen my temp gauge go up to 195 and as soon as I crest and apply the Jake's it quickly drops back down to 180.  Without applying the Jake's the temps seem to hover on the high end and are slower to come back down.

If I had a bus without them....especially a manual transmission it would be hard pill to swallow to spend what it costs to buy, install and correctly configure the brakes.  Once you had them in though...I don't think you'd regret it but I do think you'd always be trying to assure yourself you made the right choice in spending the money.

Lastly - your bus sounds bada$$ with the Jake's on.  Nothing more fun for the kids than hitting the Jake's when you are cruising through a tunnel.

-Sean

Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
www.herdofturtles.org
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luvrbus
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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2014, 09:38:58 AM »

Jakes don't cool a engine Sean they will raise the temperature it's the coasting under no fuel load and the rpm of the fan that lowers the temps.My X Eagle (8V92) the temps would drop faster without the Jakes strange yours drops faster with the Jakes engaged first time I ever heard of that

 Jake does say expect a 10 degree increase in temp with prolong use the 4 stroke are worse with temps rising with the Jakes fwiw
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