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Author Topic: Cruise control or throttle position holder  (Read 1237 times)
Tikvah
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« on: June 15, 2014, 02:15:23 PM »

I found after a long drive (now even a short drive) the position of holding my heavy accelerator pedal begins to cause long-term back pain.  I doubt I can afford a cruise control, unless there is a affordable solution.  I looked at a bus like mine once that simply used a handle on a rod that secured the pedal in a consistent position.  The idea intrigues me but it needs to release withy the brakes.  However, maybe someone here has already invented the wheel and I can learn from you.  Is there an affordable solution so I can take my foot off the pedal on a longer drive?

Dave
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 06:51:47 PM by Tikvah » Logged

I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
wg4t50
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2014, 02:41:12 PM »

Dave, my MC7 was a mechanical linkage from the foot pedal to the governor on engine, found it was easy to hold, so am wondering why yours is so hard, maybe needs lube or is binding.
Could be the return spring is too strong, check it over.
Dave M
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 02:42:43 PM by wg4t50 » Logged

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sparkplug188
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1979 Model 5 Eagle - 45/102 8v92 HT740




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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 02:54:45 PM »

You can get throttle lock mechanisms, but they are only intended for keeping the engine at high idle.  There is no safety release mechanism as such shouldn't be used while driving--

VCGTX15 15' Foot Vernier Locking Adjustable HD Control Cable PTO Dump Truck


Consider installing an air throttle.  I had to stand on my mechanical throttle to get half throttle on the governor.  The new air throttle takes very little foot pressure and completely opens and closes the throttle.

http://www.coachconversioncentral.com/airthrottle.htm

Those prices are on the high end.  If you are patient, you can source new parts from Ebay for half as much as that site.

Last time I checked, 45' throttle cables were about the same price or slightly cheaper than an air throttle.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 03:25:17 PM by sparkplug188 » Logged
Lin
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 03:26:14 PM »

I also had a problem with throttle foot fatigue.  I did thoroughly lube the linkage as much as I was able, but this did not make any real difference in my case. I decided that the problem was not so much the force required, but rather the unnatural angle that I had to hold my foot; the foot had to be somewhat extended.  I therefore cut a wedge about the length and width of the pedal and taped it to the throttle.  This kept my foot in a neutral position while cruising, so I have not had any problem since.

I was talking to Ed H. at one point, and he said his 5a came from his PO with a block added to the peddle.  He also was happy with it.
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Tikvah
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2014, 05:45:15 PM »

I love the air throttle idea but it's awful pricey... I don't see any on eBay or any google search.
If anybody sees one give me a shout

Dave
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I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
sparkplug188
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2014, 06:54:37 PM »

Accelerator Pedal Assembly currently $125 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-Controls-Accelerator-Pedal-Assy-air-WM-453-109-117527-/171353379135?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item27e575113f&vxp=mtr

Check your PMs, I have an extra throttle actuator I can send you that will work with that pedal.

If you have an automatic transmission, you can use your existing throttle position cable or use an air modulator instead.

Allison Modulator currently $85 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAMS-CONTROLS-MODULATOR-PART-WM-775-B-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/231234047860?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d69f8f74&vxp=mtr
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Oonrahnjay
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 08:26:24 PM »

   Accelerator Pedal Assembly currently $125 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-Controls-Accelerator-Pedal-Assy-air-WM-453-109-117527-/171353379135?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item27e575113f&vxp=mtr

Check your PMs, I have an extra throttle actuator I can send you that will work with that pedal.

If you have an automatic transmission, you can use your existing throttle position cable or use an air modulator instead.

Allison Modulator currently $85 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAMS-CONTROLS-MODULATOR-PART-WM-775-B-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/231234047860?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d69f8f74&vxp=mtr   


    I have a "pieced-together" air accelerator control on my bus, assembled from parts bought from Nick at NimCO, back in those days.  The parts are Williams -- it's a wonderful system.  Also recommend it highly.   Bruce Henderson,  NC   USA
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Bruce H; Wallace (near Wilmington) NC
1976 Daimler (British) Double-Decker Bus; 34' long
6-cyl, 4-stroke, Leyland O-680 engine

(New Email -- brucebearnc@ (theGoogle gmail place) .com)
Tikvah
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2014, 04:50:15 AM »

Accelerator Pedal Assembly currently $125 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Williams-Controls-Accelerator-Pedal-Assy-air-WM-453-109-117527-/171353379135?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item27e575113f&vxp=mtr

Check your PMs, I have an extra throttle actuator I can send you that will work with that pedal.

If you have an automatic transmission, you can use your existing throttle position cable or use an air modulator instead.

Allison Modulator currently $85 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAMS-CONTROLS-MODULATOR-PART-WM-775-B-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/231234047860?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d69f8f74&vxp=mtr



I sent you an email.... I'll take your part and I'll take your suggestions on these other parts. 
The air throttle makes sense to me, in addition I know some folks who have fabricated an automotive type cruise control that will work with the lighter pedal from an air throttle.  So my hope is to kill two birds with one stone.   My other thread about cleaning and replacing the throttle cable is void now.

Thanks,
Dave
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I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
Tikvah
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2014, 04:54:32 AM »

Quote
If you have an automatic transmission, you can use your existing throttle position cable or use an air modulator instead.

Friends, Talk to me about what this means.  What is the best action?  Where does this go?  Is it worth it?
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I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
TomC
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2014, 06:59:23 AM »

I have air throttle which makes for a light pedal. Since (like you) I have an Allison transmission, the throttle position modulator for the transmission works off the air pressure of the air throttle. Hence, when I installed my King Cruise, I simply made a medal extension on the gas pedal and ran the cable looped under the floor to the right side under the windshield. So the King Cruise just pulls down on the gas pedal. It works well except going down a hill where I get some surging. But on the flat and going up a hill, it is great-keeps the speed well in check. Not cheap, but worth it. As you've discovered all things with a bus are expensive. Good luck, TomC
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sparkplug188
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 10:33:36 AM »

If you have an automatic transmission, there is a cable running from the governor on the engine down to the transmission.  The air modulator takes the place of the cable.  The output air from the accelerator pedal goes to a "T" then to both the transmission modulator and the governor actuator.

Keeping the existing cable modulator will save $85 for the air modulator and the cost of the DOT "T".  To keep the cable, just cut the existing throttle linkage where it enters the engine compartment and attach the air actuator to the linkage.  It will push the transmission cable and open the governor without modifying any of the linkages on the engine.

Some people say the air modulator shifting is more responsive.  Truthfully, there shouldn't be any difference between a properly adjusted cable and an air modulator.
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chessie4905
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 03:37:43 PM »

   If you have an air throttle, you can use a Rostra automotive type cruise control which is around 200 bucks insteadbof spending big bucks on a King unit. One of the members on the other forum use to sell them and was available for problems the unit might possibly experience. You can also get them on the web.
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Tikvah
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 04:01:00 PM »

I was thinking of an old Chrysler car type cruise and a friend suggested the GM truck cruise also.

I'll check into the Rostra, never heard of it.
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I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 08:53:38 AM »

Dave - The previous owner of my bus screwed a piece of 2x4 to the floor at the bottom of the throttle pedal.  I was going to remove it cause it looks silly but after lots of driving with it...I realized its purpose and its actually comfortable.  Puts your foot at the top of the pedal and makes it easier to push.



Fulltiming somewhere in the USA
1984 Eagle 10S
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2014, 09:03:45 PM »

Before you start buying parts the the pedal and the actuator on the engine need to match you may need to change the spring in the actuator to make it work right. Ron the bus Nut had some new pedals not long ago but no actuators.

The King will cost you about 600 bucks but is the best unit on the market for a mechanical engine also the Williams throttle is widely used in the marine and construction world I have paid 25 bucks for the complete set up at used equipment yards before fwiw
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Tikvah
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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 05:18:45 AM »

Quote
Before you start buying parts the the pedal and the actuator on the engine need to match you may need to change the spring in the actuator to make it work right. Ron the bus Nut had some new pedals not long ago but no actuators.

Sure, now you tell me   Grin

I've ordered all the parts.   How will I know if they "match"? 
I have the actuator here already, but I will still need the mounting plate and lever.  The "Coach Conversion Central" was actually very rude when I called to ask about a mounting plate or actuator assembly.  I don't mean a little rude, but offensive.  So, they won't sell me the plate (they could have just said so).  You don't happen to have an extra mounting plate and accessories available for my 6V92???

I'm not a great mechanic, so any and all advice is appreciated.

Dave
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I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
sparkplug188
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1979 Model 5 Eagle - 45/102 8v92 HT740




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« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2014, 07:09:38 AM »

Thread bump-

I based my air throttle purchase on this thread on Ealges International

http://www.eaglesinternational.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3550&p=26359&hilit=air+throttle#p26359

Clifford confirmed the following parts work together-- and they do.  I am just curious how he knew.  Does anyone have a document from Williams Control outlining the operating pressure of the various models?

Williams Controls WM775B transmission modulator attached to Allison HT740
Williams Controls WM388U1A1A throttle control cylinder - will make linkage to attach to 8v92
Williams Controls WM-453-M treadle valve
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 08:59:45 AM by sparkplug188 » Logged
Tikvah
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« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2014, 08:22:25 AM »

At the moment my biggest obstacle is the mounting hardware or plate for the actuator on top of my engine.  Does anyone have one?  Or, does anyone have a good diagram or picture?
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I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
1989 MCI-102 A3
DD 6V92 Turbo, Alison
Tons of stuff to learn!
Started in Cheboygan, Michigan (near the Mackinaw Bridge).  Now home is anywhere we park
Scott Crosby
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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2014, 08:49:53 AM »

My air throttle install is documented on busgreasemonkey.    There is a photo of just the plate and the plate with the actuator mounted on it also.

http://busgreasemonkey.com/index.php?p=/discussion/250/air-throttle-install/p1
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sparkplug188
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1979 Model 5 Eagle - 45/102 8v92 HT740




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« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2014, 08:58:49 AM »

Check out Pauls (Dreamscape 1968 Eagle 01) Photobucket page.

http://s363.photobucket.com/user/Dreamscape_Eagle/media/Engine%20Tranny%20Swap/2012-03-20_10-56-15_342.mp4.html
(You may need to refresh the page after clicking the link.  Photobucket can be slow at times)

He published videos of the final version and failed prototypes.  This is one of those projects that will probably be unique to your bus.  What works well for one bus may not for yours.

Edit: I found the operating pressures for the WM453 treadles and WM388 actuators:



« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 11:40:54 AM by sparkplug188 » Logged
luvrbus
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« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2014, 09:53:05 AM »

Dave, you have a photo of the actuator if you have the universal type with the slotted holes and arm the DD mounting plate won't do you any good just fabricate you a bracket and use a rod with bell cranks on each end to keep it from binding

good luck
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sparkplug188
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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2014, 11:25:42 AM »

Clifford,  He has my actuator, WM388U1A1A, which should fit the WM642 kit.  I bought my current actuator with the mount from someone parting out their bus.

The WM388U1A1A has slotted holes, but no arm.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 11:32:43 AM by sparkplug188 » Logged
Geoff
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2014, 05:45:55 PM »

I have a Rostra universal criuse control on my RTS and it is a dream to have.  I also have to say after 12 years I am on my third control unit.  My latest control came off eBay for $100 rebuilt. Just switched it out.

Thats's okay, though-- I don't know if anyone else gets leg cramps like I do while driving without the cruise control.  It gets so bad after a couple of hundred miles my right foot is in the aisle and my left foot is pushing down on the accellerator.  Then I have I to stop and walk around to get the cramps out of legs.  It gets to be be pure misery!

While I have my Rostra cruise hooked up to the accellerator pedal with an air throttle control and it works just fine, on the other hand I just drove an MC9 with mechanical linkage and the pedal felt almost as light as my air throttle.  If your throttle isn't too tight the Rostra unit might work for you.

--Geoff
'82 RTS AZ
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Geoff
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eagle19952
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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2014, 07:49:00 PM »

Is this the Rostra that everyone is talking about ?

http://www.rostra.com/manuals/250-1223Form4565G.pdf
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luvrbus
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2014, 08:32:16 PM »

YEA Donald that is it and they work ok but nothing like the King but the King is 600 bucks and 200 bucks for Rostra I never had any luck with one iI I always end up buying the King to replace it
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eagle19952
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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2014, 09:33:54 PM »

looks like a string and a stick might work as well... Grin
seriously, seems to me if my CRS or old timers disease isn't playing tricks on me I seem to rememeber that Detroit diesel had a part number for a simple hand cranked variable air throttle control that used the same cylinder plunger that eagle uses with their skinner valve governor shut down and the high idle.

I know it isn't "cruise control" but it sure didn't cost 2-600$ either and sure beat the heck out of a stick.
we had them on pumper trucks, and mixers and others.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 10:41:16 PM by eagle19952 » Logged
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