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Author Topic: wall and door advice  (Read 1159 times)
oldfordlover36
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« on: July 09, 2014, 09:44:03 PM »

Hi I'm getting close to building a few walls and doors and looking for some insight as to good materials.  I was thinking about split studs and pocket doors but will 2x4 walls be too thick?  Or should I just build hinged doors to fit?  Looking foreward to the ideas and thanks for the advice thus far!
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grantgoold
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 11:14:39 PM »

I used steel for my interior walls. Light weight and sturdy.
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2014, 02:24:01 AM »

Me too - steel box section with plywood panels on each side. It's the only way to get the necessary stiffness and rigidity while still having a thin wall, and also enables the wall to be properly attached to the frame of the bus. My interior doors are regular hinged doors, but are made in the same way with an internal steel frame

Jeremy
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2014, 05:17:17 AM »

2 by 4 means the walls that go from front to back end up eating as much as 10% of bus width.  Splitting the stud and putting in pocket doors in these particular walls brings the wasted space to over 15%.

You can theoretically reclaim this space by building shelves, broom closets, etc into these fat walls but I've never seen it done.

edward
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2014, 06:24:50 AM »

Just another data point...

I used a bit of a hybrid system for my bedroom/bathroom wall. The bedroom side of the wall is wood studs ripped in half, and the other side of the wall (my bathroom) is 3/4" birch plywood. My bathroom is located immediately in front of the bedroom and I wanted to be able to tile the bathroom wall, but also put some plumbing and electrical wiring, as well as a pocket door inside the wall. I also want to be able to hang a TV on the bedroom wall, so I put spacer blocks inside the wall between the studs and the plywood in places the pocket door wouldn't need to occupy to stiffen it up. It's very solid, and I have no doubt I could hang a large TV on it with no problems. I should also mention that my pocket doors are 3/4" thick, although I think the space needed for the hardware was about 1-1/8". There's hardware available for smaller pocket doors like mine.

For the bathroom wall that runs lengthwise down the bus, I used 3/4" plywood on each side of the wall with a 3/4" pocket door in the middle. I wanted to minimize the thickness of the wall so it didn't eat up walkway space. That wall is 2-5/8" thick. My doors are all 24" wide pocket doors. I have three. One that separates the kitchen/living area from the bedroom and bathroom area, one for the bathroom door, and one for the bedroom door. The forward bathroom/kitchen wall is a wood stud split down the middle with a pocket door inside and oak paneling as the wallboard. It's the thickest wall in the whole bus at 4-7/8", but allows more room for plumbing and electrical.

I really only have three "walls" in my bus, so for the most part I was more concerned about the wall construction meeting it's design purpose than anything else. I think my hybrid bedroom/bathroom/pocket door wall ended up at 3-7/8" thick, but it provides space for plumbing and electrical, is strong enough to hang a TV on one side and tile on the other, and houses a pocket door.

All of the forward walls in the bus added together is 13-1/8", which for me is pretty much the cost of doing business for having walls, pocket doors, and a place to hide some plumbing an electrical.
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oldfordlover36
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2014, 06:40:39 AM »

Thanks for the ideas I was considering welding up steel walls just thought it may be easier to attach plywood/paneling to the wood.  Debo do u have any pics of your bus?  Sounds like u have a side isle and was considering that myself.  Thanks again to all.
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2014, 07:33:04 AM »

I'll take some pics this afternoon and try to post them. Mine is really not so much a side-aisle as an off-center aisle because there's (going to be) a wardrobe with drawers and a sliding half-length closet on top. The aisle (or hallway) will be 24" wide.
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 10:48:05 AM »

I used 3/4" plywood and paneled over that, had to cut the finish nails in half.  I used a pocket door for the bedroom and just mounted it between 2 3/4" plywood sheets.  The plywood makes a nice stiff wall that can be used to mount cabinets, tv's etc.  If you choose plywood make sure to pick out nice flat sheets without bows or twist.
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Mike
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2014, 12:18:51 PM »

I did the same as Mike and used the 3/4" plywood.  None of my walls are freestanding they are all "built in".  Our kids bunks have a wall on either end as a "cap" that runs floor to ceiling and the plywood is drilled into the bunk bed steel frames.  The bathroom walls are 3/4" plywood and it is built in as a box.  The wall between the kitchen and the Fridge is a box built to hold the refrigerator but it also screw into the cabinets to hold into place.  All the walls are pocket screwed to hold in place and I also used L brackets for additional support.   

The only real "wall" is the one separating the bedroom from the front of the bus.  All the others we could do without. I think if I did another bus I would build out each section to include the wall part instead of having a separate piece for the "wall". The problem that I have had with wood is going from the heavy humidity of the mid eastern coast and then traveling to places like Las Vegas.  The wood has shrunk as much as a 1/4-3/8" in some places.

-Sean
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2014, 01:43:11 PM »

Here is a picture (not the best) of my pocket door, there is a flat screen on that wall now and a sink, cabinet vanity light and mirror on the opposite wall...inside is wiring and heat A/C duct, the wall is covered with laminate, Wilson Art a white and gray/tan wood grain. The other pocket door supports the shower and the refrigerator

« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 01:47:53 PM by eagle19952 » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 09:27:46 PM »

You need to conserve every fraction of an inch. That's why I used 3/4" furniture grade Birch covered plywood (that also has no formaldehyde). For the bathroom walls I put the finished side out and gloss clear coated it. On the interior I glued Chemlite fiberglass for moisture. The corners are screwed and glued. The in between panels that are less strong are reinforced with 1.5 inch painted angle iron. It is a bit commercial looking but also is still in great shape after 20 years. And with me over 300lbs, I've bumped into the door and walls many times without problem. I am using the same technique in my truck. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2014, 03:28:27 AM »

My only walls are 2x4 or 2x3 with 1/2 plywood covering. We went with a side isle configuration as we do not like center isle. We have a bathroom that looks like a residential bathroom a 36"x36" acrylic shower, toilet and a vanity sink. We liked this idea better because if someone needs to take a dump or use the shower it doesn't restrict use of the bedroom. We all have are own thoughts on things so that's why we do it our way.
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Steve Canzellarini
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2014, 06:21:06 AM »

   Since this subject has come up, how does one attach walls to the ceiling/roof. I'm sure there are different approaches to this. My 4104 had screws through the roof to secure the walls to the ceiling. Never had any leakage from them though.
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2014, 06:40:33 AM »

On the Eagle its a steel frame so anywhere there is steel you can screw into it.  I used furring strips to the frame and then screwed all my wood into the furring strips.  The furring gave me an extra 3/4" for insulation.

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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2014, 08:30:24 AM »

I have a normal 36" x 36" shower stall with it's own door to the hall way in addition to the normal shower door to the bathroom (so you can enter the shower if someone is using the rest of the bathroom). My bathroom is on the passenger side and is built around the rear door (transit bus) so you can enter the bathroom directly from the outside to avoid tracking dirt through the bus. Nice when working outside. Plus I have an external shower. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2014, 08:43:08 AM »

Part of the choice is ceiling material.  will it go over top of partition walls or but up to it? Also if adding insulation to roof you need to decide that also. Fwiw   Bob
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2014, 12:43:33 PM »

  Since this subject has come up, how does one attach walls to the ceiling/roof. I'm sure there are different approaches to this.
I'll use single sheets of cabinet-grade 3/4" plywood for all my partition walls, and for each wall I plan on using one continuous length of 3/4" internal-width aluminum channel that will run over the floor, up the side wall and over the ceiling.   The plywood will sit snugly inside this channel on three sides, and the channel will be screwed to the floor and side wall and riveted to the ceiling.   I made a simple bending jig to form the compound curves into the channel so it lays tight against the curved ceiling  -  1/16" 6063 channel will bend quite well without rippling, as long as you squeeze the sides tightly while you bend it.   This way, if I don't cut the plywood exactly the same as the ceiling and side wall (Crown buses have lots of slightly different angles on their sides!), it won't show because it's hidden inside the channel.   I hate seeing gaps between walls and ceilings on some conversions  -  my method should prevent this.   Each piece of plywood will be held in place inside its channel by a few pins or bolts, making it easily removable if needed.   At the same time, any flexing or misalignment can be easily accommodated without increasing local loads or creating stress raisers.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

John  
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 12:45:36 PM by Iceni John » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2014, 02:26:56 PM »

  ...  Is anyone else here doing anything like this?   John   

     I worked hard to make my cabinets really stiff and solid -- but as i read this, I'm coming to think that a certain amount of free play is good.  Sounds like it should work well to me.
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2014, 04:20:12 PM »

I'm thinking of taking a design cue from the Mercedes Unimog (one of the most capable off-road vehicles ever created)  -  to allow for its considerable chassis flex when traversing rough terrain, sub-assemblies such as its engine, transmission, cab, load area, etc are each mounted by only three attachments, so everything can flex and move relative to everything else.   In my bus each cabinet or single piece will be rigid, but will be mounted resiliently and independently of others.   This way each "sub-assembly", such as kitchen or bathroom cabinets, can slightly move separately from its neighbour.

I think of a bus more like a boat than a house, so movement needs to be allowed for.

John
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2014, 10:27:37 AM »

My only walls are 2x4 or 2x3 with 1/2 plywood covering. We went with a side isle configuration as we do not like center isle. We have a bathroom that looks like a residential bathroom a 36"x36" acrylic shower, toilet and a vanity sink. We liked this idea better because if someone needs to take a dump or use the shower it doesn't restrict use of the bedroom. We all have are own thoughts on things so that's why we do it our way.

Would you share your layout? I have gone with a full side isle on my Neoplan and would like to see another take on it.
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 06:36:00 PM »

Some of my walls were already in the Bus when we bought it. I unscrewed them and moved them around and then added some others in the same Oak furniture grade 3/4" Lumber Ply. Stained to match. Most were affixed with 1x1 strips at the ceiling and the floor. I just followed suit. All doors are hinged with either Euro hidden hinges and the Bath has a full length piano hinge. We wanted as much closet and storage space as possible so made it a center isle. We also put in a 24" x 24" pantry with slide-out wire baskets the wife love them. No booth but do have a desk and table with turn around air ride seats. 2 sided kitchen.

You might want to consider putting in your ceiling first and then the walls unless you already have.

Dave
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2014, 06:41:58 PM »

We used metal studs for the walls 1 1/2" with 3/8 plywood each side. The ceiling track and the base were u shaped chanel for the studs to sit in, they were easily cut to fit the curve of the ceiling. I have hung kitchen cabinets off these walls and they are real sturdy, I actually wonder if I could have gone a little lighter on the plywood. having the 1 1/2" in the walls has been nice for running electrical boxes and wiring etc. Before we ran our walls we laid masking tape on the ground to make sure we were comfortable with the spacing of each room and its needs. Good luck, Craig
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« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2014, 10:16:43 PM »

Ok I really like the idea of 3/4 ply walls and am going to explore the aluminum channel method as the original bathroom was that way and was very solid just was unsure of bending it to match the roof curve.  I would also like to see the side aisle layout mentioned above.  I am not sure what will happen with the ceiling yet I just got all the original floor out and it there was a lot of nasty stuff under there will definitely sleep better knowing that's cleaned up!  One other thing anyone know on this 93 102c3 why there is some rust in the drivers side lower wall?  I plan to leave most of the original windows and don't want them to be leaking causing damage to my new floor and walls.  The seals all look good I am thinking maby just years of condensation from ac?  It was a southern bus and has very little rust elsewhere.  Sorry for the long post just have lots of questions lol
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2014, 11:45:00 AM »

After deciding what type of ceilings do yourself a favor and run a few pieces of conduit from front to back and about 10, 12 & 14 gauge wires for extra stuff if needed like a backup camera etc. maybe a few pieces of Romex 12 & 14 with grounds in case you want plugs or lights in engine bay. A few runs of air hose 1/4" plastic vinyl also.

Dave
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