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Author Topic: HELP - Need help troubleshooting rear end  (Read 2169 times)
Seangie
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« on: August 04, 2014, 01:24:17 PM »

Hey guys -  We are still stuck in Ronan MT.  I finally got to replacing the seals on the drive wheels on the bus.  We found that the rear passenger side seal was leaking and made a mess.  The bearings seemed fine though on both sides - No scarring or gouges, bearings in good shape.

Still trying to figure out what the noise is.

When we turn the axle on the passenger side of the bus (short axle) we are hearing a clacking (gear) noise in the differential and or dropbox.  We tried using a screwdriver to narrow down where it is coming from but cant quite put our finger on it.  It seems to be more prominent on the short axle side.

I have a video down the bottom that you can hear the noise we are hearing (around 8 seconds in) but here are my questions.

1. Is this clacking noise normal with both wheels off and the oil drained?  (We didnt hear or feel it on the drivers side until after we pulled the passenger side)

2.If the drop box needs to be repaired can the drop box be taken off without having to drip the whole rear end?

3. If this is a rear end issue can any truck repair place do the work?

4.  Are the parts for the dropbox and rear end availble or are they made from unobtainium?

5. What type of oil should I use in the rear end? (Synthetic preferred) and how much?

6.  Anyone know the part number for the gaskets on the axle caps?

Ive got a million things flying through my head right now and Im a little stressed Smiley

If you can number your answers to match the questions it would be helpful.

Im off to the parts place to get new seals.  

Thanks guys.

-Sean
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 01:26:38 PM »

Here is the video...you might not be able to hear the noise unless your in a quiet room with decent speakers or headphones. http://youtu.be/FY9jxR1Z-D4
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2014, 01:42:46 PM »

the gaskets are easily made with gasket stock, (heavy)  and a ball peen hammer. i would not buy them.

2. Yes the drop box is removed without " having to drip the whole rear end..."

3. I would not trust "just any" shop...a transmission shop/ drive-line builder is from whom I would seek a reference....

5. Synthetic would not be my preference.....you'll get answers all over the map on this...use what Eagle suggests/recommends SAE 80W90 EP.

Someone will be along to correct me...I'm sure.
I think the drop box covers can be removed without removing the unit....to inspect it....
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 02:09:20 PM by eagle19952 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2014, 02:12:14 PM »

Sounds like the ring gear has come loose on the carrier being the ring gear is on the short side,you can remove the drop box without removing the differential, any truck place can repair the differential,you can rebuild the drop box your self bearing are all most ever need and any truck repair will have the gaskets for very little cash.

If the ring gear has broken or come loose and if you have the 3:73 go to a 3:36 ratio the little 6v92 will love you forever and they hold 19 qts of of grease cheaper to buy a 5 gal bucket

 Have you drained the grease to see how much metal is in the case ? that will tell you in hurry if something is going on that is where you start first then worry if it is full of metal Cool

good luck
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 02:19:38 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 02:18:42 PM »

Cliff - can we replace the ring gear without having to drop the rear end? 

Thanks.

-Sean
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2014, 02:24:18 PM »

The center comes out of the housing  to replace the ring gear if that is what you are asking ,pull both axles remove the circle of bolts and you have 2 places to screw bolts into to force the center ( or pumpkins some call the center) from the housing 

good luck
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2014, 02:40:15 PM »

I will guess side gear or spider pinion....
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 02:48:05 PM »

Is this where the proctologist line goes....sorry Undecided
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 03:32:12 PM »

Cliff - can we replace the ring gear without having to drop the rear end? 

Thanks.

-Sean

the pumpkin comes out .... the axle housing stays .... the bus needs to be raised high enough to get a jack in and out  Grin
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2014, 04:00:01 PM »

There are several shops south of you in Missoula, Mt
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 04:15:57 PM »

Pretty difficult to diagnose from the video.

I would get a flexible magnet and search around in the fill hole
and see if I could drag anything out.

The "clacking" noise may just be normal gear noise.

Were you having any problems bdfore replacing the wheel seal?

It's real easy to imagine the worst and start throwing money.

Let us know what you find.
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 06:36:59 PM »

Sean, there is a good truck repair shop in Kalispell an hour or two North of you. They have helped me out once really well. And the people who bought my old bus as well when they blew the clutch out. I'll be back at my bus tomorrow and can send you their name and number if you need. Good luck.

JC
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JC
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 08:57:29 PM »

Hey all -

Thanks again.  Its been a crazy day here.  Finally found some brake pads.  The shop I am at now is not comfortable pulling the pumpkin as we dont have the right jacks/lifts to do it.

We are both concerned about driving it an hour or two but tomorrow we are putting the seals and wheels back together and Im going to give it a drive around and see how it does.  I think I am a little more nervous than I ought to be.  Hopefully its all in my head.

JC - Please send that shop info.  Im calling around tomorrow to see if I can find a place. 

PS - When we dropped the oil there were not any parts or pieces.   Just shavings on the plug.  Nothing to raise an eyebrow at. 

Thanks guys.

-Sean
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 11:45:54 PM »

Sean,

Try http://www.inlandtruck.com/locations/missoula-mt.php

and its not to far from a craft brewer http://bigskybrew.com/

« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 11:54:08 PM by Lee Bradley » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2014, 05:21:06 AM »

Hi Sean,

I would not be concerned about the drop box since I replaced the one on your bus with a new off the shelf from Jefferson. They are supposed to run 300,000 miles and the original had 500,000 on it. Also when the drop box was replaced the entire pumpkin was removed and taken to a shop that rebuilds them and inspected. He told me that it looked great and needed no repairs. Also cleaned the entire axle assembly just in case there where some drop box debris that got in there. Things can break but it should not be worn. Be interested to see what you find.
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2014, 05:43:18 AM »

Sean, sounds like it is all in your head, hopefully!

But if need be, the shop in Kalispell is North West Truck Repair. The owner is Willy. Recommended to me over the CB when I got into town a few years ago with a bad wheel bearing on the Courier 96. They took care of me like an old friend. Let me sleep in the bus overnight in their yard while we waited for a bearing to come up from Missoula. Then again with the same bus a few years later after I sold it to someone else. Burnt out clutch that time. Small family business. I remember him telling me a couple years ago how he barely scraped by after the '08 recession because he didn't want to lay any of his guys off because they had families to feed... Anyway, call him if you need: 406-755-9762.

JC
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2014, 11:08:32 AM »

Sean, what's the latest on this? It was great seeing you guys for just a bit....but I was hoping you'd be on the road again by now. I have on thing to say though, if it turns out your diff went bad......well, our Land Cruiser diff went bad...and you know how we are Corsican brothers...
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2014, 06:58:16 PM »

Sound to me to be the spider gears-which is normal when you spin just one side of the differential. If you have ANY question about your rear end, pull it apart and have it looked at. Any good gear man will be able to tell right away what it needs. If you don't have the right gearing (1800rpm at 65rpm is a good one), this would be a good time to change it. A bit pricey, but you'll be pleased in the long run.
I had my bus changed from the 5.57 (55mph top speed) to 4.56 where I'm turning 1700 at 55mph. I changed it when I first started the bus project 20 years and 40,000 miles ago. Still quiet. Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2014, 08:58:42 PM »

As of 8pm tonight (Tuesday the 5th) this is where we stand -

We have taken apart both of the rear wheels and hubs.  Spindles and bearings look good on both sides and we are reusing the bearings.  The inside bearing lock/jam nut on the drivers side was very loose.  That is also the side where the seal was leaking.  It made a pretty good mess that has now been cleaned up.

New brake pads and seals are in hand along with a five gallon bucket of 80w/90 oil.  We will put everything together tomorrow and drive the bus around and see where we end up.  I'll post again tomorrow and let you know what we have found.  I'm hoping its nothing or if it is something then something we can easily figure out. 

Tom H - Thank you so much for the information.  It is so helpful and good to know.  So thankful that you took good care of this bus before handing it off to us Wink

JC - Thanks for the info, first call we make if we find something we can't fix.

Scott - Check your hub seals my brutha from anutha mutha Wink

Van - Thanks for the call today. Its always great to hear your voice.  My morale went up 10 notches knowing that the Vegas bus Mafia has my back.
-Sean

PS - If you ever do happen to be rolling through Ronan MT and need some work done on your bus call Lou's Garage.  One great guy and while he is not bus specific he is an excellent mechanic and totally let me help with all the work and get some other stuff done on my own.  75$ an hour and you bring your own parts.  He's got 14 foot bays and all the tools.  Couldn't have landed in a better spot for this one.

Somewhere in Montana.....
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2014, 09:01:42 PM »

  As of 8pm tonight (Tuesday the 5th) this is where we stand - ... 

     Sounds good, Sean.  Are you thinking that you *don't* have drop box or rear diff problems?  (hope not!)

BH  NC   USA
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2014, 06:44:54 AM »

     Sounds good, Sean.  Are you thinking that you *don't* have drop box or rear diff problems?  (hope not!)

BH  NC   USA
Bruce - Not sure...the shop we are at doesn't have lifts or a tray(?) to safely get the differential out and he is uncomfortable doing it especially cause we dont know for sure if there is an issue in the differential.  So we are going to put it back together and drive it and see if the noise and heat has gone away.  If it ends up being the differential then we will deal with that when we figure it out.

-Sean
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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2014, 07:02:18 AM »

  Bruce - Not sure...the shop we are at doesn't have lifts or a tray(?) to safely get the differential out and he is uncomfortable doing it especially cause we dont know for sure if there is an issue in the differential.  So we are going to put it back together and drive it and see if the noise and heat has gone away.  If it ends up being the differential then we will deal with that when we figure it out. 
-Sean

     Best wishes for a good turn-out.   
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2014, 10:07:32 AM »

......


It's August 7.


.....


 Huh
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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2014, 02:10:45 PM »

......


It's August 7.


.....


 Huh

Geesh...  give a guy a break Wink 

So here is the long awaited update.  We pulled both wheels, cleaned up all the leaky oil, cleaned up and repainted the hubs and axle caps, replaced the seals, drained the diff oil, oiled up the bearings and put the wheels back together, adjusted the rear suspension, hit every zerk we could find, changed the engine oil, replaced fuel filters, fixed a broken drainline (slobber tube?) that goes from the airbox blowby valve to an oil catch, refilled the diff, put the tires back on and replaced studs, thimbles and nuts as needed.

It took 4 days because Lou the mechanic is also a full time wrecker driver and was out on calls all day on Tuesday and Wednesday.  He let me use his shop and tools to work on the bus while he was gone so I was able to clean up and fix some stuff.

Today I've driven about 20 miles and everything seems back to normal.  No issues with heat and all the hubs are back to normal temps.  Ill post again here if I have issues with anything else as we head back to washington.  It seems so far that all the noise from the hubs and possibly differential were from low oil.  The bearings were all in very good shape and there were no marks in the cones or on the spindle. 

Thanks all for the encouragement and feedback. 

And Van -  to get those Torsion bar nuts to move I just put someone a little younger on the job -


Here he is wanting to help out -


And here is a pic of the garage -


Lous Garage in Ronan MT.  75$ an hour.  You bring the parts (Napa and Carquest down the street) And he let us stay in the garage. 406-824-5896

-Sean

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« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2014, 04:56:18 PM »

My God that wrench is bigger than him  Grin  Give him an atta boy from me and give yourself one also for a job well done! Now go West young man!  Grin

  All our best to the family from us @ the VBM  Wink

  Me
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2014, 11:21:10 AM »

This thread reminds me of something I have done a few too many times...specifically thinking there is a problem with a system that is partially disassembled or not under load e.g. some wheel bearings  feel lumpy without weight on them.  Hopefully this rear end issue is the same...keeping it simple remains a challenge.
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2014, 12:29:35 PM »

All I can think of is that I was carrying a wrench like that two weeks ago, wearing heavy leather shoes, and the socket dropped off on my foot, hit my arch.  I was limping, taking painkillers and almost off my feet for three days, just about went in for X-rays.  He'd be in a cast with broken bones.  Gotta think all the time, because kids don't think at all about what might happen...   Angry

Brian

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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2014, 12:41:25 PM »

Brian -  Totally...that sucker weighs about 30 lbs.  I let him hold it for 2 seconds to get the shot and told him how to drop it if he had to.  I feel bad for you.  Those tools love no man.

-Sean
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2014, 02:48:06 PM »

I find nothing here to show you ever found the source of the clacking noise?

If not you may want to take a look at the drive shaft slip joint, these grooves wear and make just the sound you described. It is mostly obvious at very low speed in a quiet location. Happened to me.
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« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2014, 07:35:52 PM »

Gus -  I think the noise was normal (gears turning) with no fluid in the differential.  Once we put it all back together and refilled the diff the noise was no longer there.  There may be wear but for now its not overheating at all and I can't tell anythings wrong when I drive it.

-Sean
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« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2014, 01:23:04 PM »

Interesting. You guys out of Montana finally? And don't give me a "give a guy a break!' i'm your bro...and you called me last night when I was sleeping so there..!!

 Wink
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« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2014, 04:30:22 PM »

Great, just glad you got it solved.

I once spent three weeks at a truck repair shop in Livingston, MT with a different problem!
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« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2014, 04:44:15 PM »

Interesting. You guys out of Montana finally? And don't give me a "give a guy a break!' i'm your bro...and you called me last night when I was sleeping so there..!!

 Wink
Yes - Finally out of Montana.  Headed back to the West Coast. When are you all going to finally be out of Michigan?  Counting the days....

-Sean
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« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2014, 11:22:10 PM »

Finally out of Michigan?!
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« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2014, 06:16:05 AM »

Oooopsie....heads in the clouds.
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« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2014, 10:23:46 AM »

Hi Sean, great to hear all is good, those noises from these old girls are tricky, you need the ears of an old guru mechanic to decern them most of the time, to not worry its a major issue, Montana is not the worst place in the world to be stuck, taking a few days at Rincon Pkwy, before parking the bus,  tom lvmci...
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« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2014, 11:01:37 AM »

Hi Sean, great to hear all is good, those noises from these old girls are tricky, you need the ears of an old guru mechanic to decern them most of the time, to not worry its a major issue, Montana is not the worst place in the world to be stuck, taking a few days at Rincon Pkwy, before parking the bus,  tom lvmci...

Tom - Still have some noises and vibrations I am trying to work out...nothing is overheating or falling apart though Smiley 

 Hope you got your surfboard out. Looks inviting.  I am jealous.

-Sean
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