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Author Topic: More power from my Cummins???  (Read 1277 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2014, 08:49:46 AM »

Emissions is why they went to the 6.7
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TomC
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2014, 09:24:40 AM »

Maybe the 5.9 mechanical was a more reliable engine. But compare the power output and the fuel mileage with the newer engines-no comparison.

When I was driving, my mechanical Cat 3406B rated at 400hp and 1350lb/ft torque-I averaged 5.4mpg. Today with a DD15 rated at 455hp and 1650lb/ft torque, there are some getting 8-9mpg with 80,000lb loads. Compared to a 1988 truck, it would take 60 of todays trucks to duplicate what just one 1988 truck would put out in smog. Remarkable. Good luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
bevans6
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2014, 09:42:45 AM »

I guess I don't know much about Cummins engines but my neighbor had a 2nd gen 5.9 Cummins in a truck, it was a 24v 2001 I think, and he had it tuned with a tuner.  Why can't this 2002 5.9 cummings have a tuner on it?  Is it different when installed in a bus chassis?

Brian

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1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2014, 09:45:17 AM »

You need to get yourself a CPL book it will tell you what you can do with your engine. Mine is 1999 so it wont help you much. Cummins did produce CPL # 2208 a 6BTA 370hp@3000 rpm and 726 ftlbstq @2200 rpm. In order to get more hp from one of these little engines you have to combine several parts like the cylinder head, pistons, camshaft and or timing, turbo, injectors and pump, buy the time you put all of this together you could do some research and go to a wrecking yard and buy one with the hp and tq you are looking for. If you decide to go for it find an engine with the inline pump it will produce more power and no matter what you chose you need to change from an after cooler to a charge air cooler. You could also look at the military auctions and see if you can find a 5.9 from one of the patrol boats there not really a 5.9 but they are high output engines.

Hope this helps

Don
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uncle ned
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2014, 09:47:45 AM »



Good morning Don   Good to see you still around.

Did you catch any trout on your last fishing trip.

uncle ned
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2014, 10:04:54 AM »

Morning Uncle Ned how are you and Wilma doing, no did not catch any fish on this trip but may have a job. I heading back up around the 18th of Sept for another week, you guys should come up and go fishing with me. I have to be in vegas the 19 and 20th and will go up after that. I hope to see Van and meet Tom. (lvmci)

We lost the lease on the other shop and have moved into a small shop and don't have any room to do anything so I am selling or scraping all of my two stroke engines and parts. I went down to Valley and got my Allison 1k2k3k4k transmission certs so I can be of value to some shop some where. LOL

I was already certified on the AT, MT and HT products.

Don
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luvrbus
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2014, 10:30:39 AM »

I think the 2208 had a 3 and 5/8 stroke too Don they make 3 different cranks for that engine Case uses the 3-5/8 cranks in some of there applications it's really was their engine till they sold to Cummins they did all the castings for that engine in Pryor Ok at their foundry  in the industrial park behind Vogue been there many times doing work.  

One of my  employees would always haul a John Deere or a Cat piece of machinery there to work then I would have to send him to get the Case stuff he did that more than once before he ever got the message  Grin
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 10:39:40 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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uncle ned
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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2014, 11:04:49 AM »


Don  I have a friend that is building him a truck to tow his old tractors.

He is using a 12v71 detroit and a chev truck frame "he thinks". Ken and I do not think the truck frame is heavy enough but he is does things his way.

The truck has a 5;00 something rear end, will not do to good with a 740 trans.
Will let him find out the hard way.

Look forward to our next rally at BK's

See you sometime
ned
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Don Fairchild
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2014, 03:29:13 PM »

Ned, load up Wilma and Sam and come up to Wyoming. 12V71 is a heavy engine with a lot of TQ a pickup frame wont hold up very long with out reinforcement. When we built the super boss race truck we used an old kw with a 12V71 TT and a HT754 with 290 gears, that thing would twist that frame up something fierce. on the chassis dyno.

Clifford I knew they were a different stroke did not but did not how or about the different crankshafts.

Clifford you coming over to LV any time soon, come up around the 19th or 20th and I will buy you some water of some type. LOL

You and momma need to come up to Wyoming with me maybe we can get Ned, bk, ken, Gary and a few others to show up and have a rally.

Don
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luvrbus
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2014, 03:42:12 PM »

May work out Don we plan on being in Idaho the 1st of Oct for me to go Steelhead fishing
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azdieselman
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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2014, 04:51:40 PM »

Don, Which Allison certs did you get? I finally got my DOC programming cert earlier this year.
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RoyJ
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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2014, 06:51:27 PM »

Now that is a nice number only dreamed about in my world, having dyno'd many Cat, DDC & Cummins, hp at the drive wheels and at flywheel are miles apart.  Would take a fairly wild N14 to give 500 on the drive.  Your ISB 6.7 aint no N14 by a mile or two.  Grin
Dave M

Well, in this world there are TONS of ISBs, 5.9s or 6.7s, making 500+ at the wheels. The record ones are pumping out 1000+ with 2200+ lb-ft of torque, at 120 - 200 psi of boost!

What's the catch? Life. An N14 or ISX can have a decent service life at 500 hp. If you towed with an ISB at 500 hp 100% duty cycle, I'd estimate 50,000 miles conservative. And that's a perfectly setup twin turbo with oversized intercooler (keeping EGT as low as possible).

For the OP, how much engine life are you willing to sacrifice?

Personally, I'm looking at building up a 400 hp ISB for my bus (28,000 lbs), with a targeted engine life of 150,000 miles.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2014, 07:09:20 PM »

LOL not with just a chip on a Bosch PDM controlled injection pump as the original poster posted you are not going to get those numbers
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dukegrad98
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« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2014, 07:17:18 PM »

Great points, RoyJ.  For the record, while my 6.7 is capable of a 500/1100 level of output, I certainly don't always (in fact, very rarely) run it there -- it's kind of a "bragging rights / dyno setting" on the tuner.  I would never run at those levels when towing -- I usually bump way down to a setting around 375/800 and keep a close eye on exhaust gas temps and watch for any chattering from the torque converter, as the trans is definitely the weak link.  (My system automatically and progressively dials back output at certain threshold EGTs.)  Even at the low setting, I have crossed Colorado mountain passes at 70mph while pulling a 10,000lb travel trailer.  Not too shabby.

I also watch my calculated load gauge, which typically reads 20-35% in regular driving or steady cruising, and perhaps 60-75% on acceleration or climbing grades, etc.  I only see 100% load when doing something like passing at highway speeds, at full throttle, and then only for a period of several seconds to execute the pass.  Boost is limited at 36psi on my truck, though I rarely see more than 25psi spikes during real-world usage, with steady readings more in the 4-10psi range at cruise speed.  As above, I only see 30+ psi when passing aggressively at 70+ mph.  I have enough air from the turbo that I don't smoke even at full load.  I refuse to "roll coal" like some of the rednecks you see out there giving diesel a bad name.

The beauty of electronic/computer control is that I can make the performance-level change at the push of a button, on the fly.  On the street with no load, I typically run a 425/900-ish setting, and I don't worry as much about longevity -- the tires will wear out before the driveline does.  It actually makes the truck fun to drive.  I rarely keep a vehicle beyond 100k miles, though I've had at least one (Mercedes diesel) go beyond 200k.  This truck is looking like a "keeper."  With ~60k miles in under three years, even when she's no longer in the daily-driver rotation, I think she'll remain in the family fleet as a ranch truck or occasional tow/haul rig.  If there's an engine or trans rebuild somewhere in the lifespan, it'll probably be worth it, particularly as the government continues to make it harder and harder to have a diesel in this country.

Cheers, John
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oldfordlover36
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2014, 09:59:03 PM »

If that engine is electronic with a botch vp44 pump I wouldn't see why a power puck or edge ez wouldn't work on it.  They just plug into map sensor and pump not obd port so I would think it would work on an industrial motor.  They add something like 90 hp and 180 ft/lbs torque and the last power puck I installed was around $250 shipped.  Just look them up for a 2002 dodge ram cummins and look at some pics to c if the plugs look like they will work.  Also make sure u have a few psi of fuel pressure comming to the injector pump via a lift pump those vp44 won't last long if lift pump fails.  The ram trucks also respond well to boost elbows installed on the turbo waste gate line to up the boost a bit and to lower egts with the added fuel.  Like mentioned above wouldn't b a bad idea to install an egt gauge if doing any mods especially in a heavy bus
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