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Author Topic: Wow, what a trip  (Read 7369 times)
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2006, 05:13:00 PM »

I really believe that if he gets rid of the long exhaust and the excessive bends and then adjusts the air mixture properly, that he will not have any more problems at higher altitudes.

 Really need to determine how to adjust the air mixture properly. Since you can not see the flame, I really do not know how to do that.
 
His is the only complaint I have seen regarding this and I really think it is a result of the above items.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
David Anderson
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2006, 07:53:23 PM »

I'm not the only complaint.  When I spoke with Richard Edwards from Webasto USA January 2006 after my freezing ski trip to Wolf Creek, he shared with me that they had complaints with the 2010 in high altitude marine boat installations.  There can't be too many boats in high altitude lakes in the mountains, but there must have been enough to take notice.   Regardless, he said if I opened the shutter more than the OEM setting it would clear the smoke.  Just reset the shutter back to the OEM mark when I get back to Texas. 

My frustration and disgust was overwhelming in Breckenridge when it didn't work.  However, if Brian's heater works, mine should, also.  The difference is in the exhaust pipe.  It has to be a puzzle piece.  I  just hope it is the last piece.  Think about the boats.  Their exhaust pipe is probably less than 2' long, hence the shutter adjustment was all that was needed to make the heater operate,  an easy fix.

All this is subjective speculation, but I will give it a try and see what happens. 

David


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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2006, 09:05:58 PM »

Yea, lots of guessing going on isn"t there?.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Stan
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2006, 05:22:48 AM »

I have no experience with a Webasto at 8000'. I think the highest I have run one is 7000+' but I didn't have to make any adjustment at that altitude. My exhaust pipe was the 12" X 1 1/2" flexible SS pipe supplied by the dealer. It went straight through the bay floor and  made a gentle bend to run parallel with the underside of the floor.

Each time I completed an installation, I went back to the dealer to have any adjustments made. He adjusted the air mixture with an exhaust gas analyzer (CO or CO2) and did a smoke test. The only time I had a soot problem was if my house batteries were low voltage.
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Green-Hornet
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2006, 09:27:12 AM »

Nice story!  If it was not for incidents like that, you might not remember the trip years later! Glad it worked out.
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buswarrior
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« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2007, 05:26:23 PM »

Hello.

There is a test rig for checking the fuel pressure at the burner. You remove the nozzle and screw the pressure gauge in its place.

Mine is 2 hours away. I'll try to remember to take a picture next weekend and post. You can rig one up by using an old nozzle as a base, solder on a brass pipe and thread on a gauge.

I agree there has to be an air flow problem here, intake and/or exhaust. Webasto is from Germany and a carefully engineered product, even if their US reps are not holding up their end of the stick in advice or suggestions. I would be shocked to find that it cannot be adjusted for altitude for the North American continent.

There are too many folks who love their Webastos, we have to find a way for you to love yours too!!!!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2007, 06:46:34 PM »

Here is a link for someone else having a similar problem:
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/16306.html?1167962120#POST109588
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
David Anderson
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2007, 06:10:57 PM »

It looks like he got his fixed on the BNO board. 

I had some time a couple of days ago and shortened my exhaust pipe to 4' with one 90* turn.   There was a lot of soot in that pipe.  I ran the heater for about 2 hours and it is working fine (in Texas).  If we take the bus up to the mountains this summer I'll stop at some mountain pass and test it out.   Anyone else who goes to Colorado or a high pass in the future, stop at a pullout and run your Webasto for about 30 minutes to see if it clears and doesn't smoke.  It would be a good test to make sure you don't get frozen when you really need it.  I too believe that good German engineering should let this product work in high altitudes.  I'll eventually find the right fix.

David
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2007, 07:38:11 PM »

Here is a link for someone else having a similar problem:
http://http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/16306.html?1167962120#POST109588


Careful - I made the mistake of posting over there that there was a similar thread running here and got deleted for it. 
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R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
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Simply growing older is not the same as living.
buswarrior
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2007, 07:56:42 PM »

deleted where bob?

Here, or over at BNO?

Which is the more powerful?

Free flow of ideas and knowledge for the Customers or egos of board owners?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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pvcces
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« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2007, 07:14:56 PM »

David, I don't see where you mention what the fuel temperature was. Cold fuel will cause an INCREASE in oil output through the nozzle. Does your unit have some way of bringing the oil temperature up to room temperature before it gets to the pump? The nozzle is rated at 80 degrees.

Another poster mentioned heating the oil to make it atomize better, and that will help. But cold oil is a big deal. Here, in Alaska, we use single fuel line installations to prevent cold oil from reaching the pump.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
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Ketchikan, Alaska
David Anderson
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South Texas in the Eagle Ford Shale area




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« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2007, 04:47:03 PM »

Tom,

That could be an issue, however, the Webasto manual doesn't address it.  I saw an installatiion with copper line coiled around the heater to preheat the incoming fuel.  Interesting.   The manual recommends #1 diesel.  I wonder if kerosene would work?

David
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DrivingMissLazy
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« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2007, 05:26:56 PM »

David, I don't see where you mention what the fuel temperature was. Cold fuel will cause an INCREASE in oil output through the nozzle. Does your unit have some way of bringing the oil temperature up to room temperature before it gets to the pump? The nozzle is rated at 80 degrees.

Another poster mentioned heating the oil to make it atomize better, and that will help. But cold oil is a big deal. Here, in Alaska, we use single fuel line installations to prevent cold oil from reaching the pump.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey

Tom, if the coach sits for a period of time in very cold weather then the Webasto needs to be run to warm the engine to be able to start it, as well as heat the coach. In this situation. you would have no way of providing 80 degree oil. BTW, I did this several times in weather just above zero and it always worked good. The Webasto smoked a couple of minutes at the max and then cleaned up. I do not believe there is a requirement to heat the fuel in temperatures above zero. Don't know about colder than that.
Richard
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
buswarrior
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2007, 07:59:49 PM »

Hello.

There is an optional electric probe heater element that slips into a circular collar on the burner holding piece.

You have to get way down heading towards -40 degrees (Farenheit or Celsius, the two cross somewhere down there) before diesel will get into serious trouble flowing for the Webasto, or any other fuel fired device. Of course I assuming a relatively clean filter to begin with.... restiction will trigger an earlier problem.

For serious cold weather, clogging the fuel filter with the induced waxing is the big problem. The filter would definitely benefit from being inside the enclosure that the Webasto is in to catch some of the heat of the unit once it fires.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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pvcces
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2007, 10:36:01 PM »

Diesel #2 at 0 C is approaching ten times the viscosity that it has at 40 C. Oil this cold will not atomize quickly and it will flow through a burner nozzle much too quickly because of loss of spin in the nozzle.

Winter diesel is much better about this, but it isn't normally available in the southern states. Using a blend of #2 and #1 can give you a way to deal with getting a burner started. Once started, heat from the burner can be utilized to clean up the combustion. If the heat isn't used, sooting of the heat exchanger will occur pretty quickly.

If the burner's air is not adjustable, and it wasn't designed to be started at elevation, changing the nozzle or the pump pressure is about the only chance you have of adjusting the mix. You don't want to have too much air because efficiency drops off pretty rapidly.

To find out what the mix is, it only requires that you let a burner man with a CO2 tester measure the combustion gas. That and the flue temperature give you the burner efficiency.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey
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Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska
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