Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
August 22, 2014, 02:43:49 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If your computer is lost, damaged, or stolen, we will replace all of your E-Mags for free.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Starting issues - Batteries or charging  (Read 4544 times)
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2006, 12:38:26 PM »

Ok, I charged them up, and took her for about a 60 mile drive-- I love drivin her!!! 
 I got back and NAPA checked the CCA and the bats are real good.
  I'm going to check with a VOM to see if I have 24v+ at the bats.
 
  Sammy sent me a list of a couple things to check also. Not sure I understand it all but I'll figure it out.

  Richard, I'll search "Phantom Load" and see what I can learn there also. Thanx!

  Tryin to get juiced!
      Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2006, 12:50:05 PM »

Ok, looks like the alt. isn't doing it's thing.  Undecided  I use a VOM and check the bats individually and at 24v and it barely reads over 12 or 24.

  Anything else I can do??

    Lost my electricity,
       Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Len Silva
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4084


Angle Parked in a Parallel Universe


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2006, 01:34:11 PM »

A quick check of the alternator is to "full field" for just a moment.  With a voltmeter connected across the batteries (or any convenient location where you can see the system voltage), connect a jumper from the armature (Battery) post to the field post. If the alternator is working, you will see an immediate jump in voltage, probably see lights brighten and may even hear the engine load up a bit.  Don't leave the jumper on for more than a few seconds.

If the alternator is good then that only leaves the regulator and/or the wiring.

Len
Logged


Hand Made Gifts

Ignorance is only bliss to the ignorant.
Dreamscape
Guest

« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2006, 03:27:20 PM »

Chaz,

I had similar issues with my Eagle 12v system. I installed new group 31's, checked all connections, then fired her up to see what the alternator output was. It was low, around 12.5. My manual says it should be 13.8, so I adjusted my voltage regualtor to reflect around 13.8. I know yours is a 24v system, but it might get you in the right direction.
I do agree with others that say to disconnect the batts when sitting. I hope you have a manual that will give you some help with your charging, or lack of charging problems.

Good Luck,

Happy Trails,

Paul

Dreamscape
Logged
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2006, 05:13:41 PM »

Len, Can you tell me which post is which? I can't see any markings to verify which is which.
 
  Electricity is a good thing!
     Chaz
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2006, 05:17:57 PM »

Chaz: It sounds like you don't have the manuals for your bus. It is much easier for people to help when you can foloow along in the book. If you don't know where to get the manuals, just ask.
Logged
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2006, 06:19:19 PM »

Len, Can you tell me which post is which? I can't see any markings to verify which is which.
 
  Electricity is a good thing!
     Chaz
The posts Len is talking about are on the regulator. Battery is probably marked B or +.The Field is probably marked F.
Richard
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
larryh
4905A-893 P8M
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 350


ready to run with the big dogs




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2006, 06:29:28 AM »

Chaz on your batteries the big post is positive.

LarryH
Logged

Savvy ponderable:
A cowboy's only afraid of two things:
havin' ta walk,
and the love of a good woman.
"This posting was generated using an environmentally friendly, self contained flatulence generator, therefore no fossils or neutrons were harmed in the creation of this posting.


Quartzsite,
Chaz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1508


4108, 8V71 w/auto .


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2006, 06:40:34 AM »

 Grin Grin Grin  Thanx Larry. I also noticed they have a big + next to them also. LOLOLOL Wink
Logged

Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein
Sojourner
Guest

« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2006, 09:29:30 PM »

Correction of what being said in this post………In the pass posts Richard had made many good & corrected points…however this needs to be re-corrected…. “Alternator” will not charge whenever no field current present but generator can. So Gus is correct on this point.

Polarizing the neutral generator momentary is normal because it do not have “in-coming” source of power like alternator have….which is energize field with half of battery voltage to put back used power back in. However if battery is stone dead (O or Zero voltage) then its battery need charge some or fully before reinstall in vehicle. Don’t reverse polarity on alternator’s output terminal (+) or you have shorted or welded or burn-out diodes…Gus is right

And if you run alternator & disconnect battery terminal at the same time….it voltage will run wild to damaging alternator as well regulator.

If generator have lost it’s magnetic flux in rotating parts…it will not produce power but by momentary jump power start via outside source than it will be on it own. Richard is right

However all alternator need a set given input power (according to the battery state of charge) to field to induce magnetic field in order to charge and ONLY then will it charge.

About battery drainage…there should be no more then ½ voltage drainage between either pos post to disconnect pos cable end OR between either neg posts to disconnect neg cable end. Very common a light is still burning in bay compartment or leaking diode (diodes) in alternator or coating of sulfuric acid on battery top & side. If so wash it off using 1 part of baking soda to 3 part of water with cheap bristle brush to shrub & rinse with water from garden hose.

Otherwise be sure your battery is fully charge before you go any where.
Please read this and you will be money ahead and save many waste hours of labor in the long run;
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq4.htm

Caution…DO NOT fill battery higher than just top of cell plate UNTILL state of charge is fully up near 1.280 specific gravity @ 70º F. Otherwise you will have weakened electrolyte fluid flowing out the top of filler opening while charging. That why to make sure you have or add water to top of cell plate before charging to full state of charge….then fill it to ring as per battery manual.

It important to remember the proper filling procedure……it a common shorten battery life & weakening problem.

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
Logged
DrivingMissLazy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2634




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2006, 05:49:33 AM »

Correction of what being said in this post………In the pass posts Richard had made many good & corrected points…however this needs to be re-corrected…. “Alternator” will not charge whenever no field current present but generator can. So Gus is correct on this point.
An alternator without a voltage regulator connected will put out a few volts resulting from the residual magnetism in the field laminations. In a boot strap type operation, this small voltage is applied to the voltage regulator which will then boost it up a little and then a little more output to the field and so on until the alternator is up to the proper output voltage at which time the regulator will then control the field voltage to provide the proper output.

Please remember that an alternator is an AC device. It puts out AC voltage so it really does not matter which way the field is flashed since there is no polarity problem. The polarity of the output is determined by the way the diodes are connected.After the diodes you then have a DC output.
Richard
Logged

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2006, 06:06:19 AM »

Richard: You are quite right. The term alternator and generator does not refer only to automotive use. People who have self exciting alterantors on their gensets are not like the alternator setup on their engine. It is obvious that Gerry was only thinking about the automotive use and just confused the issue even further.

The theory that an automotive alternator will self excite from the battery voltage applied to the field is only valid if the voltage regulator is working. As someone else pointed out, connecting battery to the field will quickly show if the alternator is working. On a DN50 this is one  of the tests called for in the manual to test current draw on the field.
Logged
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2006, 08:10:29 AM »

The 50 DN alternator can be controlled by a positive field or a negative field style regulator. Some applications have a metal busbar between the BAT post and the F1 terminal, the regulator will control the ground side of the field coil on F2. Another application will have a metal busbar providing constant ground on F2 (connected between F2 and the stator mounting bolt), with the voltage regulator supplying regulated voltage to F1 (there will be NO metal busbar between the BAT post on this style alternator and F1 of course).This is one of the preliminary checks I make before performing a full field test.
The full field test is DIFFERENT for each style of regulator control, very critical to determine which style of regulator control you have.
Stay safe, work smarter, not harder.  Cool
Logged
Stan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2006, 09:08:17 AM »

Sammy: Thanks for the info. Do you know which bus manufacturers used a negative regulator?
Logged
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2006, 02:02:53 PM »

Hi Stan, I saw this when wrenching on transit buses. Just wanted to mention that the Delco 50DN was used in different types of charging systems, to be careful when working with them. The 50 DN will put out almost 300 amps when full fielded. Something to keep in mind when working with them - safety first.
Regards,
Sammy  Cool
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!