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Author Topic: 6v92 Antifreeze coming out of passenger side slobber tube?!  (Read 4528 times)
Brian Diehl
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« on: January 06, 2007, 09:42:49 AM »

Went out this morning and noticed antifreeze had filled up my passenger side slobber tube catch bucket.  What does it mean when antifreeze is coming out of the passenger side slobber tube?  I've last run the bus down to Virginia and back for Thanksgiving without issue.  It's been sitting without running ever since.  So, any ideas as to what is going on and how bad it is?  Thanks!


Should also add it is a 6v92ta in a 1985 96A3 with an HT754 tranny...
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luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 12:06:03 PM »

It sounds like you may have a liner oring leaking you can take your air box covers off and check each one,most of the time when a head gasket leaks it goes into the oil pan good luck
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 02:38:36 PM »

I'll pull the air box covers tomorrow.
What would it mean if the oring is the source of the leak?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2007, 03:32:59 PM »

Brian,the head and oil pan will have to be removed to remove the liner if the liner is not pitted the parts will not cost much the orings are 8 bucks,head set 35.00 and oil pan gaskest 6.00  labor on a bus is what cost so much.
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 02:18:46 PM »

Pulled the air box covers.  The middle cylinder on the passenger side of the bus is leaking.  The leak is on the upper part or the cylinder liner, i.e. above the ports.

So, if I have to pull the head, anything else I should be aware of?
Is there anything else I should do since I'll have the heads off?  I'm going to pull the driver side head as well if I do this since it has been leaking oil since I got it.

I'm going to go study my maintenance manuals for the 6v92 and see what I need to know before attacking this job.

How much do the following weigh?
   -- blower
   -- head

Thanks in advance.
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NJT5047
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 03:14:04 PM »

Does your blower have an issue?  The heads can be pulled without removing the blower and turbo...
I cannot say what a head weighs, but they have to be handled carefully and not set down on the flat side once off.  Get some wooden blocks or frame so that the heads rest on the blocks at the ends.   An automotive engine cherry picker will snatch the heads right out.
Take some pics and post once the unit is disassembled. 
Good luck with your project, JR
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
luvrbus
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 03:44:10 PM »

Brian, you need a set of guides to put the heads back on with so you don't have to worry about the head seals moving you can make your own out of bolts or buy a set for 29.oo from monco tool co.make sure you pull the liner and piston out as one unit and you won't need to buy a set of rings.DD used 1 black oring and one red oring but changed to 2 red orings because the black oring gets hard and leaks.so if it were me and i had the black orings i would change all of the orings .above the ports are where the orings are in the engine.You can get parts for a good price from PC Industries in Afton WY they have a web site with a toll free number good luck on your repairs
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 04:35:10 PM »

Can I really pull the heads without pulling the blower?  If so that is just great!

Since it sounds like the best thing is to replace all o-rings, I'll end up having all pistons and liners out of the block.

Should I have the liners honed and put in new rings?
Should I replace any bearings?  Do I need to do anything special with the crankshaft?  Should I replace crank shaft bearings while I have the heads off?  Finally, should I have a valve job done on the head at the same time?

This guide tool ... do you know what it is called and or its part number?

I'll call PC Industries and see what they can do for me.  Thanks for the tip!

Thanks again.
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luvrbus
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2007, 05:33:48 PM »

Brian, if your engine was running good and not smoking or using a lot of oil i would just fix your leaks if you put new rings you have to get a dd ring compressor or have somebody install the pistons back in the liners if you try to use anything else you break the oil rings i know i broke 3 sets out of 8 before i got wise make sure you don't mix the liners  and pistons put them back in the same cly they came from then you don't have to adjust the liner to the block.read your book and it will show the limits on wear on the bearings
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NJT5047
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2007, 07:02:57 PM »

Can I really pull the heads without pulling the blower? If so that is just great!

The heads can be removed without pulling the blower.    Clean the area between the heads and blower well before disassembly.
Whether or not to do an inframe depends on what the bearings look like after you have the one piston/cylinder assembly and rod pulled.  Did the bus hold good oil pressure?   The bearings are not expensive, but you'll have to be certain that you correctly fit new bearings if you change them.   The "O" rings are another issue.  I'd be tempted to replace all cyl "O" rings.  If one failed, the others may be right behind them.  As has already been covered, if you don't intend to do rings, don't pull the pistons out of the liners.
What to replace and what to leave is the sort of "judgement call" that brings Mr. Murphy out for a visit.   Huh   
Do you know the history of the engine?  The "O" rings may have been overheated  and damaged (or improperly installed...or just old and tired)...while the bearings and rings may be fine.  If it wasn't smoking when hot, had 15 or 20 lbs of idling oil pressure when hot, and cranked good cold...an in-frame may be overkill.   
Do you have any rear engine (flywheel "rear") oil leaks?  A high milage DD will leak oil at the rear main.  If the rear main is leaking, you may find it much easier to pull the cradle, and work on the engine out of the coach.  The rear main could then be replaced.   The cradle with engine/trans and all the filters and coolers is easy to remove.   
You cannot remove the oil pan with the engine on a dolly, but a dolly sure makes removing it easy.   The oil pan is easy to remove in the bus, but working on the heads is a PITA.  You'll be standing (squatting) on the muffler heat shield on the drivers side...that's gonna be fun.  The pax side head will be easy enough to remove in the coach.  Every time you bump the upper engine compartment, dirt will fall into the engine.  Steam cleaning the whole area may help.   
You could set the cradle on cribbing, or build a dolly that would fit the cradle rails which would allow access to the lower engine.    Should you decide to pull the engine and use the cradle as a stand, be sure that the cradle is well supported under the area where the motormounts are welded to the cradle. 
If you pull the engine, that would be a good time to replace all the rivets that are probably missing in the engine overhead panels. 
There is a bit of skill involved in doing the work you are diving into.  You may be a mechanic sort..but if not, get some experienced assistance.  DD 2 strokes, contrary to popular opinion, are not simple things to repair.   You'll see what I mean when you read the service manual. 
Sorry about the long windedness....nothing going on you know.   Wink
Good luck, JR  Cool










   
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand
NJT 5573
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2007, 10:08:38 PM »

Brian, If your engine has leaked any antifreze into the pan and been ran it will ruin the mains and rods. You can tell by looking at them. this may have been an ongoing problem. On a cummins for some reason the cam bearings usually survive, don't know about a DD yet. It may be cheaper to grab one of those internet engines that are majored for 4 grand. You could keep this engine in service in warm weather by just running water and lots of rust inhibitor. When the oil turns white change it!
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 08:01:11 AM »

Thanks for the feedback guys,

Basically, the engine started reliably down to about 45 degrees and then below that would need a crank, pause, crank, pause, start session to start until about 25.  At 25 some sort of starting aid was needed.  I have a block heater and webasto so haven't tried to start in real cold weather without heat for a long time.

The engine had about 70lbs of pressure at road speed and about 20lbs of pressure at idle.

About 2 years ago I had a mechanic do a pressure check when he checked all my injectors.  I had 4 cylinders about even, one low (20 psi lower than the 4) and one high (about 15psi higher than the other 4) pressure.  I don't remember the exact readings anymore....(I forgot to write it down).

So, sounds like pulling the heads and the one bad cylinder liner is the first step. 

I read the manual and I must admit it is very intimidating.  If I only have to do the one liner and put the heads back on that part of the process did not scare me at all.  However, as soon as I got into checking bearings, rods, crankshaft, cylinder roundout, etc I got nervous.  I would need to buy a lot of tools to be able to do all the measurements listed.  I'm hoping I don't need to replace any liners .... 

The book mentions using a tool to pull the liners.  Will I have problems getting the liners out without the tool and with the pistons still in the liners?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 08:08:09 AM »

Brian go to the Monco tool web site and you can get the guides a puller the have a toll free number
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2007, 08:34:08 AM »

a google search for monco tool does not yield any results.....
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belfert
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2007, 09:03:40 AM »

Brian, Didn't you mention on another thread that you want to repower?  Maybe now is a good time to do so since you might be investing a fair bit of money and time in this motor.

Brian Elfert
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