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Author Topic: cold start questions  (Read 3418 times)
plyonsMC9
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« on: January 13, 2007, 09:35:52 PM »

Hi all,

As I will be in Detroit on Monday, and will be needing to start the bus in below 32 degree temps (looks like between 28 - 32 degrees), are there any special hints for this kind of starting?  (non-ddec 6 v92)  Normally I wouldn't be too worried about this as 28 doesn't seem all that cold, but I do have to be at the shop by 8 am.  My block heater repair is not finished so that isn't an option.  The bus really hasn't had trouble starting before, but of course, I begin to worry at the last minute.  Where do I get the starting fluid ( ether ? ) ?   Do the truck stops like Flying J carry such an item?  Would it be better to not take any chances and just idle it through the night?  Am I worrying too much?

Thanks folks! 

Kind Regards, Phil

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captain ron
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 09:45:42 PM »

To be on the safe side I would idle it so you don't have to worry  Wink
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gus
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 09:57:40 PM »

WalMart sells it as Starting Fluid.

My 671 starts everya time with no problem but don't know the setup for a 8V71 or 92.

The 671 has a small cup into which I spray a very small amount directly into the air box and walk around to the front and start up.

This sure beats spraying it into the air intake. I don't know if the 8V series has this nice setup.
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2007, 10:09:19 PM »

I think I have a place where the ether egg used to be placed, is this where I would spray the Starting Fluid?

Thank you!  Phil Lyons
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 11:09:55 PM »

Number one-make sure you have winterized Diesel-either from the pump or by putting in Diesel supplement bought from the truck stop.  Once winterized, 28 degrees isn't especially cold.  If you have strong batteries, you can do the short turn over wait method. Turn over the engine for about 5 seconds, wait 5 seconds, turn over for 5 seconds, wait 5 second, turn over again and the engine should be wanting to start.  If nothing by the third attempt, use a short squirt of starting fluid.  Believe me-28 degrees is NOT cold enough to keep the engine running all night.  Sub zero-yes.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2007, 12:56:33 AM »

Phil, eight hours @ 30 degrees is not long enough for it to completely cool off if the wind isn't blowing thru the radiator. If it is a piece of cardboard will help. Eight hours @ idel is a very long time for a 92 and I don't recommend that. I recommend everyone keep 2 cans of either with them @ all times. If you run out of fuel on the RR tracks and have some more fuel, 2 cans will prime the fuel system in a dire emergency if you know how. The engine does not care how you put the either in, so the fitting in the intake and the air pickup outside your coach work equally well. A couple of 1 second shots in the cup inside or a 2 or 3 second shot into the air pickup pipe from outside work equally well.
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captain ron
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2007, 04:18:20 AM »

The cup for the capsules will not take in spray either! I paid for a road service call on the way back from Sturgis and the guy couldn't get me started using that port. I tried after getting new batteries to no avail (it just sprayed back towards my face) I had to go through the air cleaner.
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plyonsMC9
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2007, 06:27:11 AM »

Thanks for the advice guys!  I've printed off the thread & am taking it with me  Grin   I will post an update when I have some results.  Weather doesn't look so good for the next couple of days, so I'll be taking it slooow.

Kind Regards, Phil
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2007, 08:00:42 AM »

Ron

If you couldn't use the port to start it is plugged up going throught the air intake and through the filters takes a lot more cranking and hard on starter unscrew it and clean it out that is what it's for.

LarryH
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2007, 08:06:12 AM »

I sure agree with the guys that are against letting it idle all night long for those relatively mild temperatures.

How about setting the alarm and getting up to let it run it for a bit to warm up during the night if it is really cold?

The short crank/rest system works well. Just hitting the starter for 10 - 12 seconds or more at a time lets the engine push the heat out the exhaust valve. Crank 3 seconds, let it sit for 5. Repeat, repeat, repeat. This lets the heat from compression soak into the metal.

For me, the last resort is starting fluid, but i have had to use it.

Best bet i think would be to just install a new block heater and be done with it. Takes very little time and it is the best solution.

Take care,
John Z
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2007, 05:56:36 PM »

I am convinced.   Grin  Bus will NOT be idling through the night.  I am getting too PARANOID!  Bus has always started, even in cold weather - below 32 degrees -  down into lower 20s.    Below that, I don't mess with it too much. 

I agree John - new block heater is the solution - especially living up north.

Looks like snow, sleet, freezing rain moving in for the trip to the shop tomorrow am.  Nice.   Shocked

Best Regards, I will keep everyone posted.  Phil
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2007, 07:20:27 PM »

Hello all.

Let's remember that our bus conversion had a previous commercial operator, and depending on the age of the coach, it was back when no one cared about fuel costs.

That virginal bride had a previous life as a well used street prostitute.

If your coach lived anywhere cold, anywhere hot, anywhere that no one bothered shutting it off, or left it running on purpose for climate control or to be sure it would provide service later, it was idled a lot.

It isn't going to harm anything that isn't already harmed to idle the coach for a night.

I might suggest an early start so that the smoke screen on pull out is covered by darkness!

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2007, 08:28:42 PM »

I've spent 45 years in music business and in the 70s and 80s we never turn our bus off I've fast idled many days 24 hrs with a/c running. This was back in the days before gen sets were popular. We alway depended on bus air and heat. We had a 73 CM 4108 that went over 750,00 mile before engine replaced. I drove out of factory with 47 miles. Sure an 8V71 will waste more fuel today than a little Kabota. If I was in a weather condition I wouldn't think twice about flipin the fast idle and going to bed.
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Sojourner
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 10:29:35 PM »

I have live in Michigan since 1937 till 1999….seen & use many ether starts….some results into repair works.
Only use ether if you have no other option to start in colds.
If block heater is not use, than leave on fast idle until you get back on road again.
Unless 40ºF or higher with good compression (average condition) & good injector (ultra fine spray) & good state of charge batteries with excellent connection thorough out the cranking circuits & good starter…..it should start.
Otherwise take your chances or gamble if it will start with little expense.
So….fast idle will keep your batteries warmer for extra strong starting power which is much stronger than cold batteries….and fast idling no harmer than shot of ether…and it ready to go when you are.
Block heater work great for me every time after 2 hours plug in.
I sometime use standby generator whenever no hook up available.
By the way…I have seen many Greyhound & Indian Trail buses running idling while waiting hours for next driver in cold Michigan.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Jerry
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plyonsMC9
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2007, 02:28:07 AM »

Hey Jerry - Great to hear from you! 

On this bus, fast idle doesn't work.  How important is fast idle to the bus when looking at idling for an extended period of time? 

Kind Regards, Phil
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