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Author Topic: Removing rooftop AC's...  (Read 4746 times)
El-Sonador
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« on: April 25, 2006, 04:27:55 AM »


On my MCI-9, I am running two of those coleman rooftop AC,s, the larger ones, not the low profiles in addition to my over-the-road bus-air.

I have seen, but not up close other busses that seem to have an aux A/C unit downstairs.

It would be nice to get my clean roofline profile back.

Are there any realistic aleternatives to the rooftop ACs...?
If so, what's involved in the switch over...?

Thanks


Steve


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JackConrad
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2006, 04:46:33 AM »

We have a basement air in our MC-8 and are very happy with it. There are 2 types of bassement air. Ours is a complete unit that has air ducts (supply & return) from the unit up through the back of the closet into the ceiling. This type would be very difficult to install in a coach that is already converted.
The other type is a split system. This unit has the compressor and condenser in the baggage compartment and has copper lines going up into the bus where the evaperator and blower fan are located (usually in a closet or cabinet). This type would be easier to install in a coach that is already cvonverted.
Like everything else, this involves trade-offs. The basement ACs give you a cleaner roof line, but take up more space in the baggage compatments and bus interior. Roof ACs are easier to change out should the need arise. Hope this helps, Jack[/color][/glow]
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El-Sonador
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 05:04:06 AM »

     We have a basement air in our MC-8 and are very happy with it. There are 2 types of bassement air. Ours is a complete unit that has air ducts (supply & return) from the unit up through the back of the closet into the ceiling. This type would be very difficult to install in a coach that is already converted.
     The other type is a split system. This unit has the compressor and condenser in the baggage compartment and has copper lines going up into the bus where the evaperator and blower fan are located (usually in a closet or cabinet). This type would be easier to install in a coach that is already cvonverted.
     Like everything else, this involves trade-offs. The basement ACs give you a cleaner roof line, but take up more space in the baggage compatments and bus interior. Roof ACs are easier to change out should the need arise.  Hope this helps, Jack[/color][/glow]

Have you ever seen a basement unit that can utilize the original bus floor ducts and the circulation fan/filter located between the forward bay and fuel tank?

Steve
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belfert
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2006, 05:16:07 AM »

Is anyone really running a true split A/C system in a conversion?  There are three issues I can think of: need for 220 volt power, space for air handler, and cooling for condenser.  Most condensers for split systems blow the hot air straight up instead of sideways.  Most conversions have 220 volt, but only 115 Volt from the inverter.  I would like to be able to run at least some A/C from an inverter hooked to the alternator.

I've been thinking about mini-split systems for A/C.  The one ton (12,000 BTU) versions can run on 115 Volt.  I figure three of them could do the whole bus.  They have an evaporator/blower unit that just hangs on the wall.  My main concern would be the copper linesets cracking from vibration.  They blow air out the side of the condenser so the condenser can mount where the bus condenser was.

Coleman makes a basement air unit specifically for RVs.  It has two compressors so it can run on 115 Volt.  They are sold at www.ronthebusnut.com.

Brian Elfert
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2006, 05:24:46 AM »

Steve,

Check My set up out,
Twin 15,000 HP Self contained, Stacked in 1 corner of middle bay. Than ducted to a overhead main trunk, using bus returns too.
And of course, Our metal fabricating shop is always handy!!   Alot of custom fabrication went into theese!!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 09:05:32 AM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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El-Sonador
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2006, 05:37:08 AM »

Steve,

Check My set up out,
Twin 15,000 HP Self contained, Stacked in 1 corner of middle bay. Than ducted to a overhead main trunk, using bus returns too.

Hey Nick...

Cool... That's the sort of thing I was thinking about, as Jack said, other solutions would be very hard to do in an already converted coach.

Center bay? I'm guessing then that you have a 102 of some kind or newer Prevost?

Are these "Generic" units, in that they could be purchased off the shelf and modified to any configuration, such as my MCI-9 forward bay access?

Any idea as to the cost?

Steve
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belfert
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2006, 05:59:39 AM »

Steve,

Check My set up out,
Twin 15,000 HP Self contained, Stacked in 1 corner of middle bay. Than ducted to a overhead main trunk, using bus returns too.

I assume you mean 15,000 BTU, not HP.

What kind of money for those?  I assume big bucks like $1500 each or more.  The Dina doesn't have any return ducting for the coach air.  The air was ducted through the overhead luggage bays.  Return air is just a large grill opening at the rear of the bus going straight into the evaporator.

I'm thinking the Coleman basement air is probably a lot less expensive than the Cruise air units.

Brian Elfert

Brian Elfert
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phil4501
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2006, 06:49:00 AM »

my coach has 3 split carrier air conditioners I'm told they worked really well when they worked. They are 30 years old and need some work. They ventout the sides of the bays. One doesn't take up much space but 3 does. The price we pay for a clean roof line. I will keep them
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belfert
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2006, 07:23:52 AM »

my coach has 3 split carrier air conditioners I'm told they worked really well when they worked. They are 30 years old and need some work. They ventout the sides of the bays. One doesn't take up much space but 3 does. The price we pay for a clean roof line. I will keep them

Are these mini-splits with a small blower that hangs on the wall?  If not, how does the air get into the coach?

Brian Elfert
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Dale MC8
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2006, 07:53:21 AM »

FMCA had a series of articles, a long while back, concerning Bus Converting. One of the articles was about splitting a roof-top A/C. IIRC, George Myers also wrote an article about DIY split-units.
Just FYI
Dale MC8
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 09:02:28 AM »

Ok Guys,

Here is the info,

Cruiseair Self contained units

 !5,000 btu Heat Pumps w/ R-22 gas

15,000 btu cooling 12,500 btu heating

Draws 12.1 amps each 115 volts/60 hertz

Measurements- 26.25" wide X 16.25 high X 19.25 deep Top or side supply, SMX control boards/ t-stats

Theese units ARE pricey but, I also sell a generic brand with same capicitys, cheeper than you think!!

Nick Badame

« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 07:24:57 PM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 07:07:05 PM »

Belfert...answering your question

"Are these mini-splits with a small blower that hangs on the wall?  If not, how does the air get into the coach?"

They get air from a vents cut into the bay doors. I don't think they are mini splits but I couild be wrong. I was incorrect about the brand , they are cruisair not carrier. I will take some pictures and figure out how to post them soon. I'll also figure out the quote button.

They don't take up as much room as I made it sound like
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 07:33:22 PM »

Belfort, Phil,

I fabricated a custom trunk that vents the condencer air Down through the bay floor.

And intake air is also recived through the floor at another location.

The supply air is orrigenated from the unit then routed to the overhead Main Trunk via 2 6in. R7 flex vents!

Nick
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2006, 07:48:19 PM »

The one ton (12,000 BTU) versions can run on 115 Volt. I figure three of them could do the whole bus. They have an evaporator/blower unit that just hangs on the wall.

Nick can add to this, but a decently insulated bus will cool quite nicely with two 15K btu ACs. Three are typically used on coaches with bunks midship or to rapidly cool off a hot bus.
I've got two Dometic rooftop heat pumps and both running will chill your bones even in hot weather. Wife likes to turn the thermostate way down to "cool the bus off quicker" when they've been off. When icicles form, you realize what she's done. Duh. I would assume that two basement units would do the same....if your bus is foamed...and has a relatively open floor plan.
Mine are thermostat controlled so that keeps the temps steady. We generally use one unit once the coach is cooled down. I can add that two Dometics use 30-31 amps when both compressors are running. Any time the sun is not on the coach, one AC on low will maintain wherever the thermostat is set.
Three 115VAC heat pumps will use 3/4s of a 50A service. May be an issue if all three are actually needed in hot weather. Front on one leg, rear on another, and use the center only when lots of power available?
Good luck with your project! JR

 
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2006, 08:33:09 PM »

I wonder about the cruiseair models. Marathon used them for a few years but went back to the rooftops. I think the issues were cost, repair, and space.  Throw some nice automatic awnings on top and the rooftops will hide behind them.  Darren
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