Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 02, 2014, 01:39:54 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: New ownership began September 1st 2012!  Please send any comments to info@busconversions.com
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Building Materials  (Read 2148 times)
Slow Rider
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 669




« on: January 21, 2007, 01:52:15 PM »

Hi, I was wondering do any of you use aluminum studs instead of wood and why you do or don't. 

Thanks,

Ken
Logged

The MCI has landed..... We are home.
Dale City Va.  Just a southern suburb of DC
Yes I am a BUSNUT
1976 MCI MC8
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4868


Nick & Michelle Badame


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 02:02:15 PM »

Hi Kenny,

I don't recall using aluminum studs, the studs I have used were galvinized steel.

You can use any material you choose but, I think the steel studs are too flimsey for a bus.

The 2x3's or 2x4's will give you more strength and dencity and thoose darn steel studs never have the holes where you need them...

Good Luck
Nick-
Logged

Whatever it takes!-GITIT DONE! 
Commercial Refrigeration- Ice machines- Heating & Air/ Atlantic Custom Coach Inc.
Master Mason- Cannon Lodge #104
https://www.facebook.com/atlanticcustomcoach
www.atlanticcustomcoach.com
Melbo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1070


MC8 under construction




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 03:11:34 PM »

I used steel studs

I cut them in half long wise and then made them 2 inches wide and screwed them back together

I like working with them better than the wood studs

Once you attach material to the face they are very sturdy

I think they have less flex than wood over all but that is just an opinion with no actual facts to back it up

I also like the steel stud better because you can get support without the thickness of the lumber

But I have been accused by contractors of being a frustrated steel worker

Melbo
Logged

If it won't go FORCE it ---- if it breaks it needed to be replaced anyway
Albuquerque, NM   MC8 L10 Cummins ZF
captain ron
Guest

« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2007, 03:40:42 PM »

I would not use steel studs for a couple reasons. One being they cannot support cabinetry without backer boards which is not a big deal if you know where all of your cabinetry is going for sure and you do not plan to add anything else in the future as far as heavy items hung from your walls.  The second reason is  you will probably run wiring through them at some point. I would be afraid that it would over time chafe through any wiring just from the movement of the bus in travel or the vibration of travel or bus idling. This may sound stupid to you or some of you but it is possible and we preach safety allot here. Why take a chance?
Logged
belfert
Guest

« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 04:02:09 PM »

I would not use steel studs for a couple reasons. One being they cannot support cabinetry without backer boards which is not a big deal if you know where all of your cabinetry is going for sure and you do not plan to add anything else in the future as far as heavy items hung from your walls.  The second reason is  you will probably run wiring through them at some point. I would be afraid that it would over time chafe through any wiring just from the movement of the bus in travel or the vibration of travel or bus idling. This may sound stupid to you or some of you but it is possible and we preach safety allot here. Why take a chance?

They make plastic grommets for steel studs for wiring.  They also make them for pipes.  I used steel studs because they weigh less and they are perfectly straight unlike wood.

Brian
Logged
Ace
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1193





Ignore
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2007, 04:30:29 PM »

Studs? Ya'll use studs for the walls? Nah! Just put the walls up and you'll be surprised at the space you will gain! I know I know, your asking what about electrical stuff? Trust me, you can do it all without the first stud!

I DID use 1x2's on the side wallls though!

Ace
Logged

Ace Rossi
Lakeland, Fl. 33810
Prevost H3-40
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815





Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2007, 08:44:43 PM »

No studs used in my interior.  All cabinets and walls are furniture grade 3/4" plywood with birch veneer.  Everything is mechanically held together with screws and brackets (can take anything apart).  The only glue was used on the load bearing surface on the overhead cabinets and the bathroom walls.  The only wiring buried in the ceiling is the three roof AC's, two Fantastic fans, and the bat wing antenna.  All 120v is in plastic conduit, 12v color coded wires.  All other wiring goes along the surface of the left lower wall where I can access it the length of the interior.

On the bathroom walls, I did use angle iron reinforcing.  Some may not like it-it looks a bit industrial.  But because of the lack of studs, I've saved that much more room for extra in the floor plan.  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
FloridaCliff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2458


"The Mighty GMC"




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 04:20:50 AM »

Ken,

Where I wanted studs I used wood.

For all the reasons stated above.

The only other negative with the metal would be that they conduct cold/heat very well and would need to be isolated from any exterior metal touching surfacre.

Best of Luck,

Cliff
Logged

1975 GMC  P8M4905A-1160    North Central Florida

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded."
Mark Twain
Slow Rider
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 669




« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 09:29:35 AM »

Thank you for all the info.  I had never considered not using studs at all.  That is what I like about this community, not only do you think outside the box, sometimes you just get rid of the box all together! 
I read about so many ideas and ways of doing things here that sometimes it is a bit overwhelming.  I
know when I finaly do get a bus it will be a challenge, but not the "lost in the woods" challenge it would
be without all of you. 

Once again, thanks,

Ken
Logged

The MCI has landed..... We are home.
Dale City Va.  Just a southern suburb of DC
Yes I am a BUSNUT
1976 MCI MC8
DavidInWilmNC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 594


1978 MC-8 as I bought it May 2005




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 09:57:08 AM »

One thing that was suggested to me by a friend is using 1" rigid pink foam sheets with luan bonded (glued) to each side.  If you don't need to run wires (or can embed a conduit and fill in the gap with expanding foam, that may work.  It makes a very rigid panel that's just 1.5" thick and has some sound isolation.  I doubt that there'd be any problems with warping like with studs plus the luan, if it's a nicer panel, can be stained and sealed for a finished wall.  I've thought about doing the same for larger closet and wardrobe doors... sort of like a custom sized hollow-core door that's solid.  I'll be using studs in a couple of walls, for HVAC duct runs and pipe vents, but that's probably about all.

David
Logged
captain ron
Guest

« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 11:02:50 AM »

If you really think about it you are only losing 8" of length in your bus by using 2x4 studs for divider walls. generally we only separate our bedroom and bath 1 wall 4" and our bath and kitchen 2nd wall another 4" total 8" . If we use 3/4 walls in same configuration we save 6 1/2". if we go with the pink board idea we only save 5". If we divide that savings equally in the 3 rooms thats only 2" and 1 1/2" (rounded off) per room. I like the sturdiness of studs and the fact all of my pluming and wiring can go inside these walls and keep them from being buried in outside walls. In showers the shower head cannot go high enough on the outside walls in most buses even with a roof raise.  Just my preference and observation
Logged
boogiethecat
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 634



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 11:07:15 AM »

Anywhere I'd consder a need for a stud I use 1x1 square steel tubing.  It's light, structural, easy to work with (although you need to weld if you're gonna use it) and you can screw panels and other things into it with self tapping/drilling screws in a heartbeat, plus it carrys ground nicely.
In general it's the only thing I've ever used to make walls, cabinets, etc on any of my busses.
Logged

1962 Crown
San Diego, Ca
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1890


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 11:41:35 AM »

One thing that was suggested to me by a friend is using 1" rigid pink foam sheets with luan bonded (glued) to each side.  If you don't need to run wires (or can embed a conduit and fill in the gap with expanding foam, that may work.  It makes a very rigid panel that's just 1.5" thick and has some sound isolation.  I doubt that there'd be any problems with warping like with studs plus the luan, if it's a nicer panel, can be stained and sealed for a finished wall.  I've thought about doing the same for larger closet and wardrobe doors... sort of like a custom sized hollow-core door that's solid.  I'll be using studs in a couple of walls, for HVAC duct runs and pipe vents, but that's probably about all.

David

Composite sandwich panels are definitely the 'high tech' way to go, but their advantages (high strength & stiffness, very low weight) are arguably not relevant in a bus conversion. If you are building an interior in a boat or plane they are certainly the material of choice, and they are also sometimes used in commercial vehicle bodybuilding, shopfitting etc. There is a vast range of ready-made sandwich panels available using a variety of skin materials (eg glassfibre, aluminium, paper, wood veneer etc) and core materials (various foams, end-grain balsa, metal foil honeycombs etc). Panels like this are obviously manufactured under strictly controlled factory conditions, but it is perfectly possible to make good panels 'in-situ' as well - and if you need curved panels (for example, for your bus walls) that is the only way it can be done - ideally vacuum bagging should be used to promote good bonding of skin to core - I know some of the better RV builders make their own vacuum-bagged roof panels, but despite what  might be implied in the sales brochures, the construction of most motorhomes, caravans, fifth wheels etc is very old-fashioned and a long way behind what for instance would be used in a typical modern sailing yacht or even some of the better powerboats.

One important disadvantage of sandwich panels is that they rely on bonding rather than the use of mechanical fastenings (nails, screws etc), both to attach the panels themselves and to attach anything to the panels. If you do need to screw or bolt anything to a sandwich panel it can be done but it needs preparation - first drill the hole as normal, then, working through the hole, use an allen key (or similar) in the chuck of an electric drill to destroy the core material in the vincity of the hole. Then inject fibreglass resin through the hole to create a solid patch of material that will hold your screw or bolt.

Jeremy
Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
kyle4501
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3135


PD4501 South Carolina




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 12:56:39 PM »

. . . . .One important disadvantage of sandwich panels is that they rely on bonding rather than the use of mechanical fastenings . . . Jeremy

This is why one needs to choose the fastening method carefully & consider the materials being joined, the environment, & the strength required. I've seen bolted joints fail when the bonded joint lasted, but usually its the other way.

Remember, plywood is a bonded sandwich panel.

I like the idea of using thin ply with foam between & solid wood for the perimeter & where needed in the field
Logged

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
JerryH
Guest

« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 05:20:32 PM »

When re-doing the Custom Coach we have ... followed the same construction methods they used.
The used 3/4" birch ply.  It's sturdy, nice surface to adhere laminate to, etc.  Either 3/4" or 1" (can't remember) angle material was used to secure the 3/4" panels along the floor and side walls.  Placement of the angle material as such not to be seen.  The top of the panel secured using rips of aluminum -- same stuff that's used by MCI on the ceiling (what...1/16" alum.?) out of your ceiling.  The 3" rips follow are attached to the edge of the 3/4" panel -- alum. edge held flush to the 3/4" panel face.  The alum. is secured w/ nails every 1-1/2" or so.  The alum. then attached to the factory alum. ceiling with sheet metal screws.

1/4? luan then used around roof perimeter and every 18" or so to secure vinyl headliner.  Worked for Custom Coach ... worked for us.  Time we secured the bunks, cabinetry, etc.  The 3/4" partition wall are snug and not going anywhere.

JerryH
Logged
John Z
1959 GM PD-4104 4139 Northern Minnesota
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 511


"Tubby"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2007, 06:44:22 AM »

I was at Menard's, and they have that 3/4" Birch faced cabinet plywood on sale now for 19.99 a 4x8 sheet after a 5.00 rebate. Not a bad price at all!
Logged

Custom patches, caps, t-shirts, lapel pins etc since 1994.
Silver Brook Custom Embroidery and Patches
www.silverbrook-mn.com
 
"Now I Know Why Turtles Look So Smug"
TomC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6815





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2007, 08:14:44 AM »

To address sturdiness, with my straight 3/4" plywood walls, I can assure you they are sturdy-since I have smacked into them several times and I weigh 300lb.  The only place I would use studs is where you were going to position the breaker boxes so you could run the wires inside the wall (with screw panels for access). 

When I first started my conversion I asked one person what was the best interior construction for the cabinets and walls-and he said the method that allows the cabinets and walls not to fall down while driving!  Good Luck, TomC
Logged

Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!